Grimstonefire:
I always found it interesting the concept of mechanical daemons in warhammer (i.e. the juggernaut). Until the CD are done there is nothing logical in the current fluff to say how or where they are made (nothing explicitly obvious anyway). IF GW decided to continue this ‘unexplained’ mechanical daemons thing, it would be possible for them to have iron golem style creatures that existed in the realm of chaos and were summoned like regular daemons.
apocalypstia:
it really depends on where and what fluff you follow. While 40k and Fantasy are not directly related nor just incarnations of one another - the worlds in 40k have been noted to be anywhere from lifeless rock to technological wonders and beyond. Its entirely possible for a plant to found still in its cultural youth and be at a “Fantasy” level of tech.
As far as daemons; wasnt Hashut one of Khornes minions? Bearing that in mind then it would stand to reason that a khornate flavor could prodominate. Originally in Slaves to Darkness/Lost and the Damned gifts of “Technology” while uncommon were available. So a mechanical formed host infused with the essence of daemons could be an interesting take.
Additionally one of the highest gifts/goals a chaos champion could aspire too was that of attaining daemonhood himself by becoming a daemonprice, most were relegated to the seas of spawns though.
How or why the dark dwarfs became chaos dwarf worshipping Hashut i dont recall, the dwarfs not directly summoning daemons i can understand - I would see them more as binding the daemons into mechanical hosts - the daemon possessed vessel as it were.
Khornes Jugger’s while mechanical in form were creatures/beast of living brass, iron and steel. Its not that its a mechanical daemon but a mechanical looking daemon form - regardless its still a living daemon. so i wouldnt count it out as totally unexplained as some things just are.
I dont think i would want to see chaos dwarfs summoning daemons, but the golem hordes surging with the tormented power of a bound and confined daemon could prove quite interesting. Fluffwise - it could be more of understanding of the incarnate powers of the daemons and their tortuous ways but also keeping that in check and control through the binding to a golem-esqe prison so too speak.
Skink:
Apocalypstia & Grimstonefire:
I agree that maybe Gw has to expand the background a bit to make us manlings understand how a Juggernaut can work.
However, like the WoC armybook says: “Chaos Dwarfs are able to hammer the essence of the Realm of Chaos itslef in their creations” (Chaos armour tier, don’t remember the page). So maybe Apocalypstia is right: no Hashut Daemons summoning.
But you can’t deny the existence of Daemonic Engines (uhm… a Chaos Dwarf Defiler???)
Scion:
Maybe by slowly (and painfully of course) ripping the energy of the demon apart. The reaction of the realms of chaos being slowly destroyed releases a great amount of magical energy which can be harnessed.
Thoughts.
Skink:
Scion: Interesting point of view. It is the same physic principle of atomic reactions. Never thought about this before.
Scion:
Kill me with this one (I don’t know much about physics or anything) but you can’t get more energy out of something than you put in. In a modern reactor or power station, the fuel is the source of energy, hence it’s consumed. In this the demon is the fuel.
1.So how much energy is there in a demon?
2.What is required to rip the demon apart, producing heat/energy?
3.How do you control the reaction?
4.And if you use magic, how is magic contained in a static way ready to be used?
5.How much energy is made?
1. To answer the first, you would essentially need to know what made up a demon at the molecular level. Presumably they must need some atom or particle to make them up for them to exist in the material world. To answer that, you would also need to know what a demons anatomy was. So it’s body functions etc. But presumably, these machines would still need to be refilled eventually.
2. The second, use magic or maybe even runes. The sorcerer or at least the sub-conscious of his brain makes the rune or spell capable of ripping the demon apart. The energy that is released when this happens is spread out from the point of destruction. These fast moving particles hit the reactor walls, bouncing off them creating friction ie. heat. Using this you can make steam, or use another material to power a turbine, turning cogs etc.
3. Three, using the runes or spells I guess. Maybe limiting the area and beam the magic uses to destroy the demon. Though how it controls it would be interesting to work out.
How do you contain some magic in static content, well presumably you need something to store the pure magic in. Depending on what magic is.but hey lets just say it exists.
4. Using that theory, or the theory that magic is part of the current way we believe atoms and stuff work you just need an object. This can be your battery. Next you just need the control, to make it work in the right way when you release it. And the method of releasing it. Maybe have the battery trickle feed a spell which reacts to words, in order. And this spell controls what happens when you release it.
5. Well presumably not an enormous amount, or you would see th Dawi Zharr flying around in demon powered Jump-Jets!! Enough to heat the forges and reactors to a suitable heat to melt obsidian or metals. Which is probably a couple thousand of degrees. Probably consumes a Demon every 200 or so years. Or more if they are bigger demons. After all a Chaos God would have to use more power to make a greater demon.
Skink:
Hey I wasn’t criticizing! By “interesting” I ment that I liked your previous post:cheers
Scion:
And I was being funny. No offence meant 
I just wanted someone to comment.
Grimstonefire:
My guess is that the answer to all those points Scion is ‘magic’. I seriously doubt GW would ever go anywhere near this level of depth, it’s supposed to be an inexact science.
Having said that, a long while back I was all for binding daemons into crystals and burning those up as fuel! As in actually destroying the daemon utterly so it no longer existed, ever again.
Skink:
Lol. Got me blush
Scion:
You like the idea?
What do you think could cause a demon to escape?
How many do you reckon you could make?
How do you refuel?
Thank you Grimestonefire, I wasn’t expecting GW to go into this level of detail. Just trying to explain it with my scientific mind. Hey maybe it would take away the “magic (forgive the pun)” of it all. But I thought it would be interesting to have a scientifically plausible reason (I think) Anyways. I like it anyhow.
TwilightCo:
Heh, sorry I missed the center of the conversation… been busy.
Magic vs. Science: These things are the antitheses of one another, so I’m of the opinion (note: this man is not cool enough to use IMO) that the direction of CD culture needs to be established first. That being said… they worship and sacrifice to a non-corporal entity so I assume that magic, rather than science would be their primary drive. I believe that this may explain my resistance to a heavily ‘steam punk’ themed society… regardless.
I believe that once a society has found its shtick and an ‘industrial revolution’ ensues, those peoples would continue to improve upon the original designs… after all, coming up with totally brand new ideas is difficult and more often than not, met with resistance. thus… we know the CDs are adept at weapon craft and have made unprecedented strides in powering those weapons with warp entities (ie: Chaosarmor, Daemon Blades, Daemon Engines). I’d wager that CD engineers are less interested in even power distribution and grain count (you know…for guns) that they are about triple checking binding wards and restraint couplings.
See what I’m getting at?
They are used to using magic in conjunction with their creations so flaws in either practice are countered or covered by the other. So if things like fuel consumption and chemical refinement can be overcome by sticking a warp entity into the machine why would they ever bother to develop alternative sources or methods. I sincerely doubt they CDs are ‘green conscious’.
Ancre:
You like the idea?
Scion
What do you think could cause a demon to escape?I would say an imperfection in the binding ritual the daemon would find with time, by methodically trying to get out of his prison and testing its limits.
Scion
How many do you reckon you could make?
Scion
How do you refuel?Maybe you don't. It can have a life expenctancy and then become useless, for example a daemonbound sword will be immensely powerful at its beginning and then its power will fade as the daemon will get consumed, until the daemon totally disappears and the sword does not have any power anymore. Then you can go find or make another one and throw the old one as it's rubbish.
Scion
Scion:
That sounds cool, but I don’t think torturing the demon would have to be time consuming. Summon them in a runed cage/reactor that tortures them (the runes) simple. Maybe I did underestimate the energy a little. Though it should in theory be able to produce an infinite amount of electricity!!
Apart from anything else, if they didn’t know they were destroying the enviroment, how would they know what “green” was? That was why I was limiting power, it’s about equal or on par with their normal technology. Better at something, worse at others.
Ancre:
I thought about enslaving the daemon in a painful cage, that would be torturing him without actually doing anything after the ritual is done.
I saw the ritual as time consuming because in all my roleplaying games it was descripted as a work for maniacs, requiring odd, unfoundable and costly ressources (like slaves, souls, weird herbs, nails claws and chalk for example), extremely complicated things to do (trace a half-circle in white paint and write in Arial italic twelve the name of the daemon 13 times around, for example), all of which makes the ritual difficult, prone to fail, and time-consuming.
Scion:
Fair point all though the names etc. Might not matter in warhammer though.
Alric:
Does Hashut have his won demons?:hashutYes, more than likely , as servants and such.
Scion
Scion:
Yeah, with chainswords and flame throwers etc.!!!
TheWyrmLord:
Hmm…I did have a thought for a Greater Daemon of Hashut - it was called a Seer of Shades and it’s a bit like a Bloodthirster except that it can do magic, bears a dragon’s head with bull horns as well bearing the hoofs and tail of a bull and having two sets of leathery wings. Its chief weapon would be maybe a huge spear or halberd of sorts.