[Archive] Dreadquake mortar and Slave Ogre

Gunnerson:

So my question is this. If I add a Slave Ogre to the mortar does it now have +3 wounds? Additionaly what order are they peeled off in? Does the Ogre die first? I only assume the dwarfs would push him infront of any inbound fire or convesely do I get to choose? Thus eliminating the problem of haveing to roll “Slow to Fire” because the Ogre dies last? My local group and I feel  it would work this way +1 from hellbound if applicable

then the +3 from the Ogre then the 3 base wounds. Trying to lock in a commonly accepted version of this as all of the INDY tourneys are starting to pop up and I want to have an idea of what I am in for if we are wrong on how we run this.

Thommy H:

No one knows. This comes up pretty regularly.

Gunnerson:

No one knows. This comes up pretty regularly.

Thommy H
Gotcha, Does our method at least seem to be a resonable expectation of fair play?With wounds taken off in the following order?

Hellbound
Ogre
Machine
dead

Hashut’s Blessing:

If you’re planning to use it at a tournament, what we say is irrelevant - it’s whatever the Tournament Organiser says.

Personally, I’m off the opinion that the hellbound wound is first, then you remove whole models where possible (although they are markers in this case) - so Chaos Dwarfs next, Ogre last. I’m saying that’s what feels right, not what I expect it to be.

Gunnerson:

If you're planning to use it at a tournament, what we say is irrelevant - it's whatever the Tournament Organiser says.

Personally, I'm off the opinion that the hellbound wound is first, then you remove whole models where possible (although they are markers in this case) - so Chaos Dwarfs next, Ogre last. I'm saying that's what feels right, not what I expect it to be.

Hashut's Blessing
Of course it will be what the T/O says I am just looking for a good guideline to follow untill some of these are announced.

Grimstonefire:

Don’t have my book to hand.  Aren’t you required to take out whole models (crew in this case) before allocating wound markers to multi-wound creatures?

Gunnerson:


Don't have my book to hand.  Aren't you required to take out whole models (crew in this case) before allocating wound markers to multi-wound creatures?


Grimstonefire
I think that is probably right but I just dont have the book on hand to double check. I will at home though!

Da Crusha:

@gunnerson: this is how I think t should be handled. from the deamonsmith handbook - dreadquake mortar

While receiving wounds during shooting I believe the wounds should be randomized between the crew. While receiving wounds in close combat I believe the attacking unit should be able to decide who to attack specifically.

da crusha

Don’t have my book to hand.  Aren’t you required to take out whole models (crew in this case) before allocating wound markers to multi-wound creatures?


Grimstonefire
I haven’t heard of that one, not that I can remember anyway.

Thommy H:

It’s not a multi-Wound creature though: it’s a war machine. A war machine’s Wounds value is a complete abstraction, and the crew are just there to record them. When it takes a Wound, you remove a crew member. This is the only rule that applies, and there’s actually no way to resolve it with a multi-Wound crew model in the mix.

French_noodle:

I would say the Hellbound wound is never taken off.

Warmachines are destroyed when they suffer the same amount of wound as the number of servant. So the extra wound for hellbound isn’t useful in that case.

I believe the hellbound option is only used to give magical attacks to your machins (which is pretty good already), and the extra wound is useless.

Only Iron Daemons are fully using the extra wound, IMO.

Concerning the ogre, i suppose you have to determine randomly if he or the dwards are taking wounds first each time they suffer some…

Thommy H:

But the dwarfs don’t take Wounds - their Wound value is never used, only the war machine’s, the depletion of which is simply recorded by the removal of a crew model.

I’m surprised more people haven’t asked FW to errata this unit, but I guess everyone is just playing like war machines worked like they did in 7th. In 8th, the unit is literally unplayable as there are no mechanics in the basic rules that cover it.

nicque-ta-mare:

The wound value is never used, taking off models is a wound tracking mechanism so if you take the slave ogre you will never lose the Reload bonus. HOWEVER whenever someone attacks the machine in HtH, this will change the number of attacks and the strength of those attacks… maybe. I would play it is a Dreadquake mortar with three crew except it has six (or 7) wounds, only the last three wounds reducing the crews attacks in HtH

The Besieger:

The Chaos Dwarfs and the Slave Ogre have different profile.

So your enemy need to say how many will fight the Slave Ogre and how many will fight the Chaos Dwarfs.

ALSO when the Slave Ogre is dead you lose Reload bonus.

Because the Slave Ogre offer you the Reload bonus.

DONT FORGET MAX 6 enemies can fight your crew.

Monstrous infantry/Cavalry/beasts each count as three models

when selected to fight a war machine, while a monster (incl rider)

counts as five models.

The Besieger:

About the Hellbound Wound.

I use it as the first wound.

When you play it hard there are other rules:

--------------------------------------------------------

TAMURKHAN 187

Hellbound :

One of the Hellbound rules say you have +1 wound.

BRB 108

War Machines :

The Crew :

The Crew are used only to indicate the remaining number of wounds and the number

of attacks the warmachine can make in close combat.

Split Profile:

You always use the movement , weapon skill ,ballistic skill , strength , initiative ,

attacks and leadership of the crew.

No rule that say you need ignore/lose this wound on a war machine.

So you are need to representing the wound by a crew member.

So a extra crew member = 1 axtra CD attack ? :cheers.

nicque-ta-mare:

TAMURKHAN 187

BRB 108
War Machines :
The Crew :
The Crew are used only to indicate the remaining number of wounds and the number
of attacks the warmachine can make in close combat.

Split Profile:
You always use the movement , weapon skill ,ballistic skill , strength , initiative ,
attacks and leadership of the crew.

No rule that say you need ignore/lose this wound on a war machine.
So you are need to representing the wound by a crew member.
So a extra crew member = 1 axtra CD attack ? :cheers.

horlely
I think RAW is if you take the slave ogre you never lose the reload factor and all the models can fight in HtH and Hellbound is the first wound lost, crew last. Shooting wound allocation random (as RAW HtH attacks are reduced by shooting). I am just afraid of my opponents response to that, which is why I would play it as I said above

Bolg:

I'm surprised more people haven't asked FW to errata this unit, but I guess everyone is just playing like war machines worked like they did in 7th. In 8th, the unit is literally unplayable as there are no mechanics in the basic rules that cover it.

Thommy H
I was thinking the same, probably as its not a very popular unit choice.
(I do not agree, I've faced it on the battle and it its awesome and a very good alternative for a Hellcannon)

When playing I think a bit of common sense is best.

So the Ogre does give +3 wounds to the model. when taking wounds other than combat randomize the wounds (technically there is only a 1 in 4 chance of hitting the orgre... I'd go for a 1 in 3)
In combat attacker has the choice of attacking the Dwarves or the slave. I would say you can only allocate half of your attacking models on the slave.
If the slave dies I say you lose his bonus.
And making it Hellbound does also give it +1 wound, it says so clearly in the book. (so if you have hellbound and slave Ogre you have one warmachine that can take a minimum of 2 wounding cannonball hits as its on W7. it will be expensive and needs a baby sitter but it will be awesome)