Carcearion:
Hello every one, I want to open this by saying the Lost Kingdoms Indiegogo campaign has been great so far. The creator is not only taking feed back but even making products based on his contact with us here on CDO, has been very forthcoming with all questions and concerns and generally been great to us here on the forum and am absolutely not making any accusations against him or his campaign.
However I have been reading allot of really awful stuff these last few weeks about Indiegogo that has me a little frightened. I would like to throw down the 120+ $ and grab a bale-tauris and lammasu (on top of the small contribution I have already made), but for me that’s quite a big investment and simply put I’ve never used any crowd funding platform before and am kinda spooked by all the scammer stories I’ve read.
I would really like to hear peoples experiences here on the forums with this kind of thing, and what they thought about the risks involved.
sam585:
Usually, if the person or company using the crowd funding has produced something before and completly fulfilled a project hen it is pretty safe bet that they will be able to fulfill whatever other project they are trying to get funded. Usually what occurs is that an amateur group does not fully grasp the difficulties in going to full production and you are hit with long delays before ever getting your models, or not getting your models at all. For myself, I just buy the items off of ebay, or other sources.
Darkmeer:
Unfortunately, after the Heroscape 25th debacle, which I wanted but did not back on any forum because of the legal mess it was, I stick only to Kickstarter. I have a good track record there, and I have only chosen a couple of projects I was unsure whether would succeed (and they did succeed and exceed my expectations).
Indiegogo, in contrast, all of the projects, even the ones I WANT to back (staring at Lost Kingdom here), but for some reason, I just can’t bring myself to back it. I feel bad, too, but I will wait for eBay and/or the project manager to have a web site up to purchase the minis I want. There have been a few projects on indiegogo that I really liked, miniatures and otherwise. There is even a 3-d printed terrain company that did a stellar indiegogo, then switched to KS for future projects (sadly, those are wish list kickstarters). I do not pretend to know why, but when you jump from one crowdfunding group to another, either your company has issues (not the case here), or there is a problem with the platform. I err towards the latter, which makes me sad.
This is not to say that ANY project on Indiegogo doesn’t deserve your money. A BUNCH of them do. From the outside, I can’t do it. That makes me sad.
Bloodbeard:
I don’t now the actualt difference between IndieGoGo and Kickstarter - but there’s some difference for the project makers at least.
I’ve backed project on IndieGoGo and have never experienced any problems. I’ve backed two books, multiple LARPs and some miniatures.
But legalwise there’s not much difference between Kickstarter and IndieGoGo. You might get burned on both of them. AvP is the worst kickstarter campaign I’ve read about.
The worst I’ve backed (besides HeroQuest on Lanzanos - but I got my money back) was a carry case - Mantis it was called. The 1 person behind got completely swamped, too much succes, had to hire people to help him out (which broke is budget plans). Got my stuff 1 year over time and the guy behind it had to sell some of his own stuff in order to make it.
Deal is: You put your faith in some people and a few people are rotten. LKMiniatures seems like a good guy, I wouldn’t worry to much about him scamming anybody.
Biggest problem will be big delays in shipping as it’s a one man operation. Or the bad luck that can hit anyone working too much - stress.
TheHoodedMan:
Supporting a crowdfunding campaign is like lending money to someone without special guarantees. That should be basically clear.
Admiral:
It’s always a risk, indeed. My few experiences have been positive so far. They were nothing so substantial as my Lost Kingdoms pledge, yet even it is one I gladly put on the line. I trust the creator to know the calculations and branch to deliver his wondrous miniatures, which by the way are neatly presented. Those big hat heads alone is something which makes it worth to sponsor a project with quite a sum in my eyes, even if it would turn haywire. (Plus I can wait longer with attempting any hat head sculpts of my own, since that niche will be essentially covered, leaving only special hat forms and decorations to be explored.)
Jackswift:
My one experience with Indiegogo went very smoothly indeed, and I have supported a plethora of Kickstarters with only about 2% never actually making it to fulfillment. (“Would you say I have a plethora of pinatas?”).
The platform notwithstanding, as already stated, it is the company itself that makes the difference. The more planning a company has done re cost and the closer they are to actual manufacturing, the better the result will be. The ones with a concept only, and no prototypes or realistic pricing tend to either take many times longer than promised to fulfill, or lose money and have to out of pocket the expenses to fulfill. Most are honest companies and do their best to reach fulfillment.
My basic assumption when backing any crowdfunding project is that they will be late, most likely very, very late. And when I do get the item in the mail, it is a pleasant surprise. I am not buying a product, and I do not assume they will meet their timeline expectation. I am helping a company get a product going, and get a perk as a result. I have way more than enough models to paint for a few years, and do not need to be in a hurry. Getting a product off the ground takes time, effort, and money. Often more than these new fledgling companies budget for in a campaign. The process is difficult so give these new companies some slack. As long as the company is communicating progress… even slow progress, then I sit back and wait. I have one that I supported that is 3 yrs late, and has had problems do to promises by their partners that were broken. But they are still communicating and fulfilling their obligations and the end product is looking great.
The key is patience when dealing with crowd-funding. It’s a long game. Most do deliver even though they are late. And when the companies do deliver on time and in quality (and some, probably about 3-5% actually do), I am pleasantly surprised and enjoy the result.
Sorry for the rant, and not meaning to start a debate, so take with the appropriate seasoning. Cheers :cheers:hat off
El Guapo: “Would you say I have a plethora of pinatas?”
Jefe: “A what?”
El Guapo: “A plethora.”
Jefe: "Oh yes, you have a plethora."
El Guapo: "Jefe, what is a plethora?"
Jefe: “Why, El Guapo?”
El Guapo: “Well, you told me I have a plethora. And I just would like to know if you know what a plethora is. I would not like to think that a person would tell someone he has a plethora, and then find out that that person has no idea what it means to have a plethora.”
Jefe: “Forgive me, El Guapo. I know that I, Jefe, do not have your superior intellect and education. But could it be that once again, you are angry at something else, and are looking to take it out on me?”
Carcearion:
Thanks everyone for all the responses on this. I’m especially glad to hear that while people have of course run in to difficulties, but that most of you have at least eventually gotten what they pledged for (or at least their money back).
I was really exited about the LKMiniatures’s campaign from the git go (well almost from the git go) and made some small contributions (Hats! :hat ), but once I found myself with an unexpected large chunk (for me anyway) of spending money I found myself worried about where it all might go.
I think allot of your comments (and a special thanks to an especially sober and succinct one from TheHoodedMan which stuck with me and conversely to Jackswift as well for weighing in with detail about his plethora of experiences) have helped me think of it more of an investment then a purchase. I was well aware that crowd funding horror stories are going to make more interesting articles, and that people who experienced them where going to be an awful lot more vocal then people who had average (if sometimes clunky) experiences and I’m glad I had the forum to bounce it off of fellow gamers and hobbyists. I try not to be a huge risk taker financially, especially not with the relatively small amount of extra money I have from time to time (I scour Ebay for weeks sometimes to get a good deal), but you know its kind of exiting to take a little bit of risk I think pledging on just one bale-taurus/lammasu kit sounds like a good way to go (also like a few of you pointed out the campaign looks really solid, theirs even some prototype miniatures posted already, and LKM has been great to us on the forum).
Thanks again everyone! :hat off
So I realize this post kind of brings closure to my whole question, but I’m still really curious to hear other peoples experiences and discuss the topic further if anyone has anything else to share or thoughts to add.
Also a bit off topic:
@Admiral I would gladly pay more for half as many of your hats. Your style has a whole classical charm of its own that goes along with all the historical influences in your work. The LKM hats are really great, but given a choice I’d prefer something a bit less Chaos Marine and a bit more Sumerian. Whatever you decide to do Heads/Hats/Special Hats Only/Decorations (shields? bull idols?) I don’t think there is any less demand for it because of LKM “filling the niche”, I think the people who want the old school chaos dwarf feel would be all over it regardless 
Lol sorry for hounding you all across the forum about these hats 
this must be like the fourth or fifth thread I’ve mentioned them in.
cornixt:
Ignore which crowdfunding platform it is on, few will take any responsibility if it goes wrong. Look at what the company is doing, if the costs add up, what experience they have, how much extra time/money they have allowed for. Question everything that doesn’t make sense, even if the less-questioning backers give you hell for it (people get really defensive of crowdfunded projects they have backed and act like you are trying to tear them down). If the project looks unrealistic, don’t back it.