[Archive] Fate of Chaos Dwarfs in the UK - [UPDATE FROM JERVIS JOHNSON]

Archive [Archive] Chaos Dwarf Discussion
21

Hammerhand:

The only email we have available is the events team that organises UK events and tournaments (including WHGT) events@games-workshop.co.uk. Asside from this, I (or anyone else in the UK where postage will be cheaper) can post a printed version to :

Jervis Johnson

c/o White Dwarf

Design Studio

Games Workshop

Willow Road

Nottingham

NG7 2WS

United Kingdom

Better still, if anyone lives in Nottingham (UK) they ca just pop o up and post it straight through the Design Studio door. I was their a while ago, delivering an entry to a warhammer writing competition by hand. They have no problems with taking stuff like this

Jervis has been at the Design studio for Eons and has had a hand in pretty much everything that GW has done post Rogue Trader. He Managed the Specialist Games department when they first separated, was the Editor of the Citadel Journal at one point and sharp intake of breath It was he who championed the publishing of the Blood Angels GYB list in White Dwarf. I believe he will be receptive to this sort of thing as he openly publishes his contact address (above) in White Dwarf asking for opinions or even to arrange a game at Warhammer World. It could even be prudent for someone who lives in/near Nottingham to arrange a meeting and present the petition by hand, as well as explain the good work that people are doing on websites such as this.

The Idea may be flawed, and as I mentioned in the post before it may not work. But doing something is better than doing nothing and you never know, it just might work. What have we got to lose? It takes all of 2 mins to sign up to an e-petition, a further 5 to print it and around 30p (60 cents US) for a stamp to post it.

22

Xander:

I think petitions, especially e-petitions are not the best route to take. I think emailing and mailing is the way to go. Let’s write up a statement that we can all email to this events address, I will get it started, feel free to modify and spell check it.

To whom it may concern,

Reading over the Warhammer Grand Tournament Rules Pack for the UK in 2007/8, I have noticed that “Unless otherwise noted, only the main lists from the Warhammer Armies books may be used.” If I understand correctly, this means the Ravening Hordes list for Chaos Dwarfs, which was valid in the previous season, is no longer valid for use in these tournaments.

Being a Chaos Dwarf general, this has me very concerned. I would also like to request that an amendment to the Rules Pack be made to allow the use of Chaos Dwarfs, otherwise I would like to know the reasoning behind the removal of this list.

Concerned gamer,
-David J. Clarke

Rough Draft
Thoughts on this draft? Improvements? Once we have finalized a copy, I will send an email to each member of CDO and make a thread about submitting emails to the same address and also have the Jervis address listed so we can write letters as well.

Also, does the UK White Dwarf have an email address also?

23

Hammerhand:

Nice Letter! White dwarf used to publish a fuel for the furnace section for readers letters at fuelforthefurnace@whitedwarf.co.uk. One month I got Grombrindals pick and won tickets to the UK games Day 2006. Now WD doesn’t do this section any more and it was a while ago but I am sure my notification came from Owen_Rees@whitedwarf.co.uk Owen Rees was the WD Editor at the time. It’s a long shot but we could try Jervis_Johnson@whitedwarf.co.uk to see if that works, or try the @games-workshop.co.uk. as it is quite likely he may have one of those addresses to. We don’t have to stop at Jervis, I’m sure Gav Thorpe, Allesio Cavatore(??) and that have these addresses too in a similar format e.g. gav_thorpe@games-workshop.co.uk. They Could only ignore us couldn’t they! there is no crime in guessing email addresses!!!

24

Hammerhand:

:madArrgh! Hands Up! my mistake, just been through my e-mail archive and still have the Grombrindals pick email, it was from owen.rees@games-workshop.co.uk I am pretty sure that other email addresses within the GW company will be along these lines. Curse my seive like memory!:sick

25

Lord Darkash:

Wouldn’t it be the UK events manager, Brian Aderson isn’t it?

26

Xander:

So let’s start collecting a list of emails.

events@games-workshop.co.uk

owen.rees@games-workshop.co.uk

jervis.johnson@games-workshop.co.uk ?

gav.thorpe@games-workshop.co.uk ?

brian.anderson@games-workshop.co.uk ?

27

Hammerhand:

ok here goes:

Citadel Design Team[/u]

Tim Adcock, Mike Anderson, Dave Andrews, Juan Diaz, Martin Footitt, Colin Grayson, Jes Goodwin, Mark Harrison, Alex Hedstrom, Gary Morley, Aly Morrison, Trish Morrison, Brian Nelson, Seb Perbet, Alan Perry, Michael Perry and Dave Thomas

GW Contributors[/u]

Dave Andrews, Alessio Cavatore, Dave Cross, Jes Goodwin, Andy Hoare, Niel Hodgson, Jervis Johnson, Mark Jones, Phil Kelly, Mike Mason, Chad Mierzwa, Karen Miksza, Stuart White, Dominic Murray, Gavin Thorpe, Adam Troke and Matthew Ward.

Just off the top of my head:~ just kidding, they print this in the small print in the cover of the UK WD.��Owen Rees is still the UK editor. And, don’t forget the Godfather:- Rick Priestley.

Rik Turner and James Milne are the current UK WD Journalists.

I think if we bombard everyone with e-mails it may annoy them to the point of actually doing something about it. I think the design team mentioned above are the figure sculptors, the Contributers seem to be the ones who write army books & suppliments etc.

One thing we need to make clear is our goal, it would be all to easy to demand an army book which is likely to get fobbed off, we all need to be asking for the same thing (IE make CD WHGT Legal) so I think xanders idea of a standard letter is probably best. We could forward it to all the above mentioned personnel and if nothing else would get them talking about it.

28

Xander:

I don’t think we should go too overboard with all of these.

The heads of a few departments should suffice.

29

clam:

According to this thread at “The Pyramid Vault” Jervis’ e-mail address in 2004 was: Jervis@games-workshop.co.uk - but as said - it was in 2004 when he was “head fanatic”.

30

Lord Darkash:

events@games-workshop.co.uk

31

Uzkul Werit:

We’re not alolowed in the UK GT? Odd. Both DOW and Chaos Dwarfs were legal in a small tournie I was in a while back.

32

hal:

We're not alolowed in the UK GT? Odd. Both DOW and Chaos Dwarfs were legal in a small tournie I was in a while back.
There are tournaments in which you can use the lustria lists; the storm of chaos and the spawning list for lizardmen.

They allowed CDs last year and in the Irish GT this year (back in march).
33

Uzkul Werit:

Ah ha. Here’s the thing. Ireland is no longer part of the UK sytores. It’s included under Northern Europe which to be honest, seem to run a much better ship.

And WD only has two writers now? Blimey. No wonder it’s a load of trash.

34

Xander:

Ok, we should try to work out exactly what kind of email we want to write. Is the one I wrote sufficient? Which address should we send to?

35

torn:

i wouldnt bother sending it to a random unlisted address, as chances are someone who doesnt expect random public e-mails whilst busy at work are very likely to ignore/delete or read and forget them. they may just see it as another one of those ‘xxx army is my favourite and i want it to have more attention’ e-mails.

i think a written letter to jervis’s standard bearer about unpublished army list armies becoming more popular due to the combined effort of worldwide gamers, which may influence him to write about it, which will get CD’s a hell of a lot more standing ground than unsolicited e-mails.

36

Hammerhand:

Ok, we should try to work out exactly what kind of email we want to write.��Is the one I wrote sufficient?��Which address should we send to?

Xander
Your e-mail is fine, I have already forwarded my copy to the events@games-workshop.co.uk address to which I got this reply this afternoon:

------------------------------------------------------------------
David,



Chaos Dwarfs have been excluded from the GT's. This is because they do not currently have a standard Warhammer Armies Book and the only rules currently available are out of date. In order to ensure that we have a level playing field at out GT's we have taken the step of standardizing which armies can be used and have used the Warhammer Armies books as the most reasonable and practical point of reference.



In order to try and minimize the impact on our players we introduced the Counts as rule to allow people to use any miniature from their Citadel range to represent an alternative unit. For example, the Chaos Dwarf models could represent Dwarfs using the Warhammer Armies: Dwarf book as the foundation to the list.



Of course, if at some point in the future GW decides to redevelop the Chaos Dwarfs and release a new Warhammer Armies book then they too would be allowable in our GT's again.



I hope that goes some way to explaining the decision.

Brian Aderson

Warhammer World Events & Hospitality Manager
0115 9004469
07919 321434

Any opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual and not necessarily the company.
This e-mail and any accompanying attachments may contain information which is, or maybe confidential and/or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or have received this e-mail in error you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution or the taking of any action in reliance to the contents is strictly prohibited, and that this e-mail and any attachments should be returned to the sender immediately.

Although this e-mail and any attachments have been scanned by anti-virus software, and are believed to be free of any viruses it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that they are virus free and no responsibility will be accepted by Games Workshop Ltd for any loss or damage caused from receipt.

Games Workshop Ltd Registered Office: Willow Road, Lenton, Nottingham. NG7 2WS. Registered No. 1467092 www.Games-Workshop.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dave Corden [mailto:david.corden@tesco.net]
Sent: 19 August 2007 11:46
To: Warhammer World Events
Subject: UK GT



To whom it may concern,

Reading over the Warhammer Grand Tournament Rules Pack for the UK in 2007/8, I have noticed that "Unless otherwise noted, only the main lists from the Warhammer Armies books may be used." If I understand correctly, this means the Ravening Hordes list for Chaos Dwarfs is not valid for use in these tournaments.

Being a Chaos Dwarf general, this has me very concerned. I would also like to request that an amendment to the Rules Pack be made to allow the use of Chaos Dwarfs, otherwise I would like to know the reasoning behind their exclusion from this list.

Concerned gamer,
-David Corden

-------------------------------------------------------------------
We should get everybody emailing in and see if we can sway this with weight of numbers. I think we should put more emphasis on being allowed to use the Ravening Hordes list fo CD's as a substitute for an army book.
37

Xander:

Ok, so we got a reply, nicely done! Now the question becomes, do we continue to send the email? Or do we have everyone write their own personal version of the email?

38

Hammerhand:

Ok, so we got a reply, nicely done! Now the question becomes, do we continue to send the email? Or do we have everyone write their own personal version of the email?

Xander
If we all send the same e-mail, mr Aderson will know it's come from a group, and will be well aware that we are probabl discussing our replies. I think we need to include, though, a request that RH be updated to keep us on "a level playing field" as he stated in his email.

To the end of:

To whom it may concern,

Reading over the Warhammer Grand Tournament Rules Pack for the UK in 2007/8, I have noticed that "Unless otherwise noted, only the main lists from the Warhammer Armies books may be used." If I understand correctly, this means the Ravening Hordes list for Chaos Dwarfs is not valid for use in these tournaments.

Being a Chaos Dwarf general, this has me very concerned. In the spirit of the game, all races should be present at the Grand Tournament as it is a prodigious event. To that end, I would like to see the Ravening Hordes list updated for 7th Edition Warhammer, as well as request that an amendment to the Rules Pack be made to allow the use of Chaos Dwarfs, otherwise I would like to know the reasoning behind their exclusion.

Concerned gamer,
-***Insert Name Here***

I will also reply to Mr Aderson's email and will let you know how things go from there, although I do not expect to receive a further reply.
39

Xander:

I think sending it in group form, might have less of an effect seeing as we already got a reply. It would be more beneficial if people sent their own email, in their own words, expressing disappointment in the decision.

What do you think?

40

Hammerhand:

I think if we get enough people e-mailing in it might work, as long as we all ask for the same thing. They need to know that we are a group that are working together. To use a rather weak analogy, it’s easy to fight a thousand individuals but much more difficult to fight an army 1000 strong. If they know we communicate, they may be a little more reluctant to fob us off with the same reply. The more interst that is generated, the more likely they are to deal with it, as no one wants to receive tons of the same e-mail everyday.

The Reply came frome whworldevents@games-workshop.co.uk by the way.

I have replied to mr Adersons email with this:

Mr Aderson

I apologise for my persistence first and foremost as I know you are very busy.

I understand the reasoning behind the exclusion of the out of date Ravening Hordes list hence the removal of Chaos Dwarfs from the allowable list. However,

I am one of a number of Chaos Dwarf gamers who are concerned with this and write to you in representation of a large Chaos Dwarf gaming community. Having played Chaos Dwarfs for years in some cases, it is unfair to ask us to use our army in ways other than it was intended to be, or to ask us to play our second choice army. A level playing field for most is still not a level playing field. It is also confusing hence unfair for our opponents when every unit in our armies would ‘count as’ something else from a different army. The ‘Counts As’ rule does not allow the Chaos Dwarfs to be fielded in a manner that reflects their unique background and so goes against what is the fundamental spirit of Warhammer.

We think it is a viable solution for the Ravening Hordes army list for Chaos Dwarfs, which is still available for download on the Games Workshop website, to be updated and posted as Tournament Legal for the UK Grand Tournament, even if just a stand alone PDF file that could be downloaded by all competitors. Especially as Games Workshop has not to date indicated when there will be a Chaos Dwarf army book, or indeed if. Would this result in Chaos Dwarfs being excluded from the UK Grand Tournament for what could be several years, or indefinitely?

Recently, White Dwarf featured an article publishing the Blood Angels Codex update as official rules allowing them to be accepted in the UK 40k Grand Tournament. Whilst I am aware this may be beyond your area of management, why couldn’t this be done for Chaos Dwarfs seeing as they are the only army that would require it?

In summary,

We don’t believe the ‘counts as’ rule is a viable option to field a full army, as this is unfair to both parties, confusing, and against the spirit of the game.

We would like to see the Ravening Hordes list updated or an article in White Dwarf that would allow us to field Chaos Dwarfs in the Grand Tournament. If not, we would like confirmation of when/if an official army list of some sort will be available for us to use in future Warhammer Grand Tournaments.

If you are unable to help us, we would appreciate it if you could direct us to somebody who may be able to help.

Finally, we would like to thank you greatly for your time, and we fully appreciate what you have explained to us this far.

I hope you can understand our concern and frustration.

Regards

David Corden

Concerned Gamer

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I will keep you informed, although I don’t expect a reply to this one :sick