burock:
Hi,
ran a search but couldn’t find anything about that, so have to ask. Are the hailshot blunderbusses and fireglaives “move or fire” or “move and fire”?
thanks in advance.
MLP:
Hi,They are both move and fire suffering from -1 to hit at long range
ran a search but couldn't find anything about that, so have to ask. Are the hailshot blunderbusses and fireglaives "move or fire" or "move and fire"?
thanks in advance.
burock
Obviously the Hailshot's rule that 10 models or more in the unit negates that
Hashut’s Blessing:
Unless the “Special Rules” part says “Move or Shoot” or “Move or Fire” or something similar, it is always move and shoot (for non-War Machine weapns).
Visitor Q:
It is worth noting that in the description of the Fireglaive it says it is a ‘heavily constructed repeating handgun’. Obviosuly it does not have the multiple shots special rule. I am guessing that the move and fire rule is to take into account the ‘repeating’ bit (i.e it is quicker to reload).
Hashut’s Blessing:
It simply means that it can fire more thn one shot without having to be reloaded, in muh the same way as a modern rifle has a magazine/clip of ammunition and doesn’t need to be reloaded between each shot.
Sorceror-Prophet Nalgrund:
Yeah, it’s kind of sad. You get all excited by the description (ooh repeating handguns), and then it turns out all it means is ‘hey enjoy moving a couple of inches and only hitting on 6’s’. They even nerfed our range to force us to move (because Empire and lesser Dwarves have better range by default, and can bring more of it for the same points).
They need to give fireglaives some kind of buff. They’re a good weapon option (S5 at initiative is very good), but the gun part is lacking until you get 20-30 Infernals firing at once. One of the following;
- Quick to Fire: Makes sense, given that it’s a shortened or carbine version of a ‘standard’ handgun. It would also negate the silly ‘Stand and Shoot’ negative modifier (which makes zero sense), which fits with our philosophy of ‘tank and make them charge you’.
- Extra shot: Shooting modifiers mean you need 5+, sometimes only 6’s in every scenario bar being stationary at 9". Another shot would mitigate our mediocre BS3 and the ludicrous shooting modifiers in Fantasy
- Price reduction: Infernals are a bit overpriced anyway. Maybe something along the lines of great weapon = free swap, fireglaive is great weapon price, blunderbuss becomes fireglaive price. Keep current Infernal cost, but the weapon option re-costing makes fielding your choice a bit easier. Also makes blunderbuss vaguely worth fielding, currently its way too pricy except on tiny units.
Hashut’s Blessing:
Quick to Fire doesn’t make sense because they are complex weapons and stated as such - I feel like they should have flaming attacks based on description and the dreadquake mortar picture, but see no in-game reason.
Extra shot: This excarbates your problem by reducing our To Hit roll by a further point for having multiple shots - also, why take the Hailshot then?
Price reduction: this is a given, but the points should be a GW for 1pt, a fireglaive for 3pts and a hailshot for 3pts (maybe 4pts).
The thing is, the short range is to encourage using war machines to drive people into fireglaive range. They drive the enemy into going for combat to avoid the mass of shooting, but get the stand and shoot of hailshots, followed by the parry and armour of the BBs. The fact we can move and shoot is a massive boon: we can spin on the spot to react to a a rear/side ambush, which Dwarfs and Empire handgunners/crossbowmen can’t.
ChungEssence:
No way GW’s should be only 1 pt, especially for the already slow dwarfs, if they were 1pt no one would take any other option. I half think the 3pts was because the FW IG models don’t come with them. In 8th GW’s should be 2pts for everyone as with step up they are very effective.
I mean they are repeating in that dwarven or normal handguns are move or fire. I’m fine with that. I’d like some extra bonus to make them better than normal (not dwarven) handguns in terms of shooting. I’d actually have been fine with them costing 6!!! pts… if they were strength 5 shots and I think that would fit the beasty guns they have.
Hashut’s Blessing:
GWs at 1pt fits everyone esle. Chaos Warriors have them at 2pts for 2 attacks. I’d still take other options (if costed properly) - +1S and shooting with no reduction in speed and the same armour? Shooting, plus extra armour and a parry? sounds viable to me, especially at S4.
S5 would be too strong. The range is a bit of an issue, not so much the strength. The gunpowder used is just as powerful, bit its power is split between more pellets, so effective strength of each hit is lower - the D3 shots represents the more hits.
ChungEssence:
Chaos Warriors are giving up a lot more initiative than Dwarfs/Chaos Dwarfs to use their Great Weapons though. Dwarfs pay 2pts for 1 attack. Grave Guard give up their shields for GW’s so they are effectively 2 pts. Tomb Guard pay 2 pts for Halberds.
1pt Great Weapons on Marauders are underpriced.
Yeah, Strength 5 probably would be too strong for the glaives which is why I was willing to pay more pts for them and would fit the whole elite CD theme. You can’t give the fireglaives D3 shots as that’s the Blunder’s area. I definitely agree with the flaming attacks though. I’d like to see them as is for 4 pts, but when i get a regiment i’ll still pay the 5 as they look cool.
Oh well, just glad we have these 2 unique weapons. I’m a fan of both sets of rules actually
Hashut’s Blessing:
Dwarfs pay it because they are the last book of 6th edition, the first for 7th edition - they’re outdated. Grave Guard are in the same situation as us (well, we get the save against shooting) and Halberds don’t make you strike last.
Marauders themselves are underpriced, lol.
Sorry, got confused by the discussion and wanted to include both weapons because both are overpriced and the thread title includes both items 