[Archive] Hashut and Be'lakor

Archive [Archive] Chaos Dwarf Discussion
1

Son of Darkness:

Has anyone ever thought about an alliance between Hashut, the god of the Chaos Dwarfs and Be’lakor also known as the Dark Master from the Albion campaign who was also in Storm of Chaos?

Be’lakor is a Deamon Prince, of Chaos Undivided, who was curse by the Gods of Chaos and now he has broken free from that curse and is seeking revenge against the “Greater Gods of Chaos”.

I can just see his Dark Emissaries coming to Zharr-Naggrund and forming a secret pack with Hashut and his followers to divide the Warhammer World between them, meaning they seek to prevent the followers of the Four Powers from their final victory.

I mean evil men will aid each other when they seek profit in it and they are not like the Four Powers which are constantly warring with one another, nor are their spheres of influence overlapping; I think it is a very possible alliance. This is the basis of the fluff for me using a Dark Emissary in my Chaos Dwarf army (as they are now counted as Dogs of War). What are your guys thoughts on this?

2

Steven:

I hadn’t thought of it, but for certain I have thought about getting that model after seeing the picture of it in Storm of Chaos. That is a sweet freakin’ model for certain. I like your idea for the theme of your army though.

3

Thommy H:

I would have thought the Chaos Dwarfs would support whoever paid them the most (in slaves). Remember, they gave Archaon (not Be’lakor) the Hellcannons. Also, would a daemon want to help a race known for enslaving daemons? Not that Be’lakor himself would have any problem selling his fellows into slavery, I’m sure, but it might be a conflict of interest.

4

Grimstonefire:

Daemons don’t have slaves or gold… So an alliance would be a little one sided. A possible way would be if Be’lakor forced some of the lesser daemons to be bound into weapons/ machines, but even then would any sane CD make an alliance with a daemon?

They would make a VERY dangerous ally.

5

Kera foehunter:

no slaves or gold count me out!!! who need another god like that

6

Hashut’s Blessing:

Principally, it’s sound. The Father of Darkness working with the Shadowlord, but I think Hashut is FAR too independent and it’d only happen if the CDs got something out of it (unlikely at best) and if it worked towards Hashut’s ends…

7

Son of Darkness:

O.K. let me deal with these issues one by one

I would have thought the Chaos Dwarfs would support whoever paid them the most (in slaves). Remember, they gave Archaon (not Be’lakor) the Hellcannons. Also, would a daemon want to help a race known for enslaving daemons? Not that Be’lakor himself would have any problem selling his fellows into slavery, I’m sure, but it might be a conflict of interest.

Thommy H
Yes we trade with Archaon but do we really want him to succeed? Do we really want him to lead the mortal hoards to victory followed by wave after wave of demons in his wake? I think not. Be under no illusions the minions of Chaos would not leave us alone, they would seek to take our domains from us. Against a full Chaos incursion we cannot have victory against the limitless hoards of Chaos.

Also no offence but the view about gold and slaves out of the alliance is a little short sighted, we could gain so much from such an arrangement. (In no particular order):

1. Dark Emissaries: Sorcerors are rare amongst our people so having the services of these powerful mages (level 4 all) would be a great boon to our people.

Also the Dark Emissaries during the Dark Shadows campaign they manipulated most of the races in the world to fight for or decieved good races to serve the ends, of Be’lakor. At the very least they could place themselves on caravans that go through our lands and betray them to us, and in this act this gives us slaves, gold and various goods.

Lastly as Dark Emissaries are all over the world they can give us valuable information about what is going on in the world.

2. 5th column: A good way of denying the Four Powers victory, and thus further the ends of Hashut, is to support the power undermining their efforts to gain his revenge. Be’lakor can harness many followers of Chaos to bring ruin to the world to further the aims of Hashut rather than the Four Powers. Be’lakor has a vast demon army and his Dark Emissaries can rally armies of most races to further his ends ,forces which can be used to our ends as opposed to the forces of the Four Powers.

3. Be’lakor is not a god: Be’lakor is a very powerful Demon Prince not a god so Hashut, as a god, will have the better end of the bargin. WHEN Hashut rules the world there can be room made for a Demon Prince who is loyal to Hashut. Hashut is greater than Be’lakor but Be’lakor has much to offer our god and our people. We will not be taking on another god, we would be taking on a powerful ally which will greatly help us defeat the Four Powerful gods who want whats Hashut.

4. Power: if we want to bring the world to its knees we must build more power through alliances, and an alliance with the Four Powers is self defeating as they are more powerful by far… for now. Be’lakor is a better choice than say the Horned Rat for example. I am sure Be’lakor would have to be watched as an ally, but is a better ally than most.

5. The beyond: as a Demon Prince, and lord of demons as well as a former chosen one of the Chaos Gods, Be’lakor has knowledge and powers we do not. He can give our sorcerors much knowledge about the magical realm which we can use. He can probably give us demon, rather ones he has enslaved or those which serve him, to be bound to our creations. He knows were many ancient treasures are which can further our ends and can give us knowledge of te Chaos Gods we can use against him.

There is more I can go on about but I have gone on for long enough. Your thoughts?

8

speedygogo:

I think do what you want to. You can mold just about anything into fluff. However, Hashut and the Be’lakor are distinctly different forces of chaos and would have their own agendas. Any alliance between the two would likely end with backstabbing. Since chaos dwarves have backstabbing down to an art, ie the sneaky git, Be’lakor would end up powering a hellcannon. Maybe that is why he has disappeared from GW fluff.

9

Thommy H:

Your thoughts?

Son of Darkness
My thoughts are that "we" are not actually Chaos Dwarfs ;)

Pretty much all the background for the Chaos Dwarfs makes it clear that they're not interested in conquering the Old World - the Plain of Zhar, Gash Kadrak, the Mountains of Mourn and Gorgoth contain all the mineral wealth they could ever need, and the greenskin tribes that owe them fealty in the western Dark Lands ensure a steady flow of slaves in the form of Men, Dwarfs, Skaven and other Orcs and Goblins captured in battles. Trade with the Ogres to the east and the Chaos Marauders to the North is also highly lucrative.

The Chaos Dwarfs don't need Be'lakor, any more than they needed Archaon - he just struck a deal: slaves from former (and perhaps the coming) conquests in return for Hellcannons. If they were to ally with Be'lakor, it would be in return for some kind of resource, because that's all they actually care about. The Chaos Dwarfs don't do conquest - they're already completely dominant over the entire Dark Lands without even holding much territory.
10

Son of Darkness:

Actually I beg to differ, Chaos Dwarfs do want to conquer the Warhammer world. From the Chaos Dwarf Man O�?TWar fluff:

�?oIf the Chaos Dwarfs prevail, the cities of the Old World will be pulled down, and their inhabitants condemned to an eternity of slavery in the factories of Zharrnaggrund�?�

From the prophesies of Astragoth, the High Priest of Hashut

�?oOne day Hashut shall rise from his slumber, and trample the world beneath his brazen hooves. The dead shall outnumber the living, those who remain shall be dragged in chains to the pits of Zharr to toil for the greater glory of Hashut�?�

So even though they have all the resources they need Chaos Dwarfs are destined to wage war on the whole world and that�?Ts a good thing.

The new fluff for the Chaos Dwarfs has to give them a reason to go out into the wider world were they will meet, and fight, every other army in the Warhammer world. Chaos Dwarfs literally need to wage world on the greater world or else they will forever be mentioned, sometimes, in the fluff but never become a playable race.

Take the Ogres, in fluff terms they needed to be united under Goldtooth for their to be peace in the Ogre Kingdoms so their population would grow so large they have to migrate into the wider world were they will fight other races. This is what gave them life as a playable race.

If Chaos Dwarfs have all the resources and slaves they basically need they will just sit on their little butts at home just trading with the races on their boarders, they will not fight many races and GW will not give them an army list, so things need to change. Hashut wants to bring desolation to the world and the Chaos Dwarfs are his chosen people for this task.

Why I suggested the Be�?Tlakor alliance is because he and his minions are active in the outside world were Chaos Dwarfs should be. Both sides do not want Archaon and the Four Powers to take over the world. As from the prophesies of Astragoth Hashut has claimed the world and will not share it with the Four Powers. We might trade with the followers of Chaos in the North but that is because 1. We get money and slaves but more importantly 2. It weakens the rest of the world leaving it vulnerable for the awaken of Hashut and Chaos Dwarfs going out to drag the rest of the world to the pits of Zharr.

To wage this war on the outside world we will need allies and I though Be�?Tlakor would be ideal because his ulimate revenge would be denying the Warhammer world to them and his network of followers, especially Dark Emissaries would aid us.

Basically the Chaos Dwarfs do do conquest, we are just preparing for a great war!

Please people, give war a chance!

11

Thommy H:

they will not fight many races and GW will not give them an army list, so things need to change
That doesn't mean they will. Part of the reason they're not supported is that they're not very likely to fight anyone except Ogres, Orcs & Goblins, Chaos Warriors, Dwarfs and maybe Kislev which makes them an unpopular prospect.

And while there is a little background to suggest that there is some intent to conquer the Old World, there is much, much more to suggest that they're quite happy where they are.

Whatever the eventual decision is as to the direction the hypothetical new Chaos Dwarfs take though, there's never going to be a scenario in which they actually succeed in taking over the world - the Warhammer setting(s) don't work that way.