BilboBaggins:
I don’t consider Chaos Dwarfs evil just misunderstood.
There was a guy in White Dwarf a few years ago who said he only played “GOOD” armies but one of his was a Nurgle Chaos Army. He went on to explain why Nurgle was good.
cornixt:
Chaos is simply the creation of emotions from living beings. So if the living beings are inherently evil or good, then Chaos is too. Since any measurement will only be relative, the overall emotions will have to be taken as being neutral, so Chaos is neutral.
I don’t think there is anything that shows that gods based on previously living beings are the beings themselves, rather than the emotions of their followers. I’ve got more to write but no time today, will add more later if it isn’t already said by someone else.
Swissdictator:
I’m thinking Dark Elves and Vampire Counts duel for title of most evil. Dark Elves can also claim Malekith is the rightful heir, but they’re a pretty messed up people. VC… well… they want to reduce all life to cattle.
Chaos Dwarfs may be greedy or self centered, but that does not equal evil.
wallacer:
I pretty much agree with Cornixt. The Chaos Gods are simply the manifestation of the emotions and drives of the humans (and non-humans) who worship them. Thus, Khorne embodies violence and rage, Slaanesh embodies lust and the pursuit of pleasure, Nurgle embodies apathy decay and Tzeentch embodies change and curiosity.
None of these things are intrinsically evil, therefore neither are the Gods they are based on.
Hope I didn’t go too off topic there…
slev:
I recall a Nurgle cultist in a WFRP scenario inoculating people on the grounds that the inoculations where weak infections, hence he was spreading disease, yet doing good, in Nurgle’s name.
Chaos = change, emotion, and anarchy.
Law = stagnation, control, and order.
Don’t forgewt that people don’t much like the followers of Law either. Both are extremists, which is why the Young Gods hold sway.
Revlid:
I don't consider Chaos Dwarfs evil just misunderstood.... You have a very odd interpretation of "not evil", then.
BilboBaggins
Slave taking, sadist, sapient-sacrificing, daemon summoning, sociopathic Dwarfs aren't evil?
Wow.
Swissdictator:
We also have to keep it in context of the Warhammer World.I don't consider Chaos Dwarfs evil just misunderstood.... You have a very odd interpretation of "not evil", then.
BilboBaggins
Slave taking, sadist, sapient-sacrificing, daemon summoning, sociopathic Dwarfs aren't evil?
Wow.
Revlid
Slaving? Not unusual in the Warhammer World. Dark Elves, Skaven, Orcs (kinda), Chaos Dwarfs, and I'd argue Chaos Mortals are not the only powers. I could see slaves in various other human cultures.
Plus is being killed so your corpse serves for eternity worse then slaving? The Bretonnian Peasants are very down trodden too.
Sadist? Depending on how loosely you use that, most cultures in the Warhammer world have some sadism. Dark Elves certainly, Chaos Mortals, Ogres, Orcs, Skaven, Vampires, and humans all over.
Sapient-Sacraficing? Lizardmen and I suspect all Elves do this too (just to what degree).
Daemon Summoning? That's a questionable one, as would casters in general be on the same level summon the winds of chaos (and possibly demons) to weave spells? What about the Forest Spirits, are they not... in essence... of the same nature as Demons, just reflecting a different will/emotion/etc
Sociopathic: With the exception of perhaps the Lizards, most cultures have an element of this. What about the Witch Hunter who burns an entire town because one person was tainted, even though the populace had jailed the person. If this is accepted and legally sanctioned in the Empire, is the Empire no less sociopathic?
I think that it's more that the entire Warhammer World is very dark, very cynical, and there's plenty of evil in the world. Which is why it is so intriguing for me. Sometimes I joke the Wood Elves are the most evil. I don't think it's question of "are they evil" or "are they capable of evil"... it's more "how cynical/dark/pragmatic/etc are they?"
VC, Dark Elves, Wood Elves, and Demons qualify as the truly evil powers in my eyes.
Chaos Dwarfs are oppressive, certainly, but not quite "unholy evil" that I associate with the term.
wallacer:
Hashut is a bit different. The four main Chaos Gods are basically just manifestations of human emotions and drives. Hashut, on the other hand, seems to be a deity (or whatever) that the Chaos Dwarfs discovered, rather than an entity who was created in the realm of Chaos by their emotions and drives like the big four were (although the background fluff on Hashut is fairly hazy, so this could be wrong).
Since Hashut is described as “the Father of Darkness” he could very well be some kind of evil entity who was discovered by the CD in the Darklands and then corrupted them (or at least corrupted them further). It’s a bit of a chicken and egg problem.
It’s hard to extrapolate from the big four to Hashut, because we don’t really know enough about Hashut (we don’t even know if he actually is a God or not).
cornixt:
WoC book calls him a god. Whether Hashut was discovered or incidentally created is still unknown. Being constantly overwhelmed by Chaos has got to cause some pretty strong emotions in the dwarfs, so that could be his source.