[Archive] Hatred Question!

Hashut’s Blessing:

Unfortunately, what Baggronor has said brings up that dodgy “grey area” of interpreting the point of the rules (not saying it’s Baggronor’s fault that that happens, btw).

Something like the Doomrocket we would say “yes, it’s shooting, obviously” even though it doesn’t state it. However, I’d say “Hatred only affects the first round of combat, not the first round of having Hatred” and that brings up the grey area. No hard and fast way of solving it beyond going to an extreme for fairness’ sake. Hopefully, they’ll word it better and answer in an FAQ if not.

Nicodemus:

I agree with HB, Baggronor and others…

Voice of Hatred certainly seems to have been intended to grant Hatred on “The first round of combat after the spell is cast”, as is the interpretation of many (including myself the first time I read it). Unfortunatey that’s not what the draft version of the spell says, and no amount of wishing and wanting will make it so.  Intention or not, unless the wording is revised in the Throne of Chaos book we’ll be stuck with Voice of Hatred being applicable to “Only the first round of combat” in the same way Flagellants and other rules were until they were clarified in a subsequent FAQ.  Until an FAQ shows up, however, I’d err on the side of caution and not grant myself the better version.

I’m not sure Voice of Hatred working “Only the first round of combat” necessarily makes it the worst spell. It lets you stick Hatred on things that normally couldn’t have it.  Hellcannon with Hatred anyone x.x

MartyF:

Let�?Ts hope they clear it up, it�?Ts always a pain to try and sort these things out before a game.

Where a rule is unclear I generally find its good practice to go with the worst interpretation (unless you and your opponent are in total agreement with how it should work), that way you can never be accused of playing it wrong to your advantage.

However I also think that where a rule is unclear it�?Ts acceptable to take precedence from another book or FAQ, in this case the flagellant ruling which is an almost identical case. I�?Td find it incredibly frustrating if they ruled one way in one case but a different way in another. But as this is GW I wouldn�?Tt be surprised :slight_smile:

Disclaimer: the following should in no way be used as the basis of any rules argument, it�?Ts just an observation :slight_smile:

The rule book describes the re-rolls as the unit releasing its pent up hatred, the reason it happens in the first round is because that�?Ts the first chance you get to do it. If a unit was granted hatred mid-combat it would make sense for this hatred to be unleashed there and then, not for them to wait until the first round of their next combat.

Hashut’s Blessing:

Considering the nature of the list, it is definitely best to go with the ruling as it states. We seem to be nearly unanimous about its intention, but it’s application isn’t equivalent to that.

As Martyf has said, it’s safer and quicker to go with the worse “interpretation” (in this case, exactly what it says, which isn’t ambiguous - what makes it ambiguous is our joint decision that it’s intended method of working is different). If you and your opponent agree it should be otherwise, it’s a houserule and you should treat it as such.

What I disagree with is taking other army books as precedence (to an extent). Each book is an exception to the core rules, essentially, and thusly can work differently to other ones (Brings me back to High Elves’ ASF - other armies with ASF and Great Weapons strike in Initiative order, but they still ASF). I said to an extent because we should take from it the fact that it wasn’t until the FAQ changed it that it became that way and so we should act in the same way: it causes Hatred until something else says they get Hatred and it works in that round.

If it did work in the same manner as the FAQ Flagellants, what would happen with units that have Hatred? Since they already have Hatred, they can’t get it again and so couldn’t benefit from the spell. Alternatively, it reapplies it. Play it as it says until it’s clarified because it prevents arguments and ambiguities like the above.

Regarding what Nico said about it not being the worst spell: There are certainly worse spells. Against an army with no saves, Metal damage spells are useless. This spell will allow any of your friendly units to re-roll misses that round if they charged or the next round if their opponent charges them - which brings up the possibility of the opponent not charging because they don’t want to risk the buffed unit killing even more of them. That means it can be useful for attacking, for defending and as disruption to their battle plans. (As an afterthought to the post: If you are hitting on 5s or have a spell cast meaning 6s, then the re-rolls double your chances of fighting back too.)

At this point, it’s underrated by the forum, IMO, and kinda wishful thinking for it to change - it may well do, but I doubt it and, if it doesn’t change, it should be played as it states: just Hatred (which, as I just said) is pretty dang useful.