I still have a couple pages to create and I likely have a number of typos, grammar errors and formatting problems, but I’ve almost completed an army book for the Hobgoblins.
I need to put copyright information in this as well as well as credit those whose art is being used. If anyone has any fluff or artwork that they would allow me to add into the book, I’d appreciate it! It is currently a bit empty in certain places.
Not got time to check atm, but I will have a look later. Looks professional!
By copyright I assume you mean the usual paragraph from GW about not infringing etc, not your own copyright. Good luck trying to track down the front cover artist, I know one of them in the middle is Adrian Smith.
I haven’t drawn any hobgoblins for years, and the ones I did weren’t great, so no use there I’m afraid.
Well done on putting together a complete pdf.
Doing a quick read the thing I first saw was the Lores the Hobgoblin Sorcerers can take. I would drop Heavens and replace it with Fire and maybe add Metal (or swap Shadows with Metal).
Yeah, the GW copyright information and sourcing the fluff.
Bilbo, why would you suggest I change to those lores? They live in the middle of an icy desert and they don’t work with metal except that they steal swords and armor from humans. Shadow supports their ‘sneaky, underhanded, rogue’ image and Heavens supports the concept of venerating the moon, wind and lightning… at least that was what I thought looking over the various lores in the main rulebook.
I can’t see just Hobgobs using heavens. Tossing fire seems more suited to them.
I figure they are learning from sneaking looks at their masters the Chaos Dwarfs. Chaos Dwarfs use Metal, Fire, Death and Shadow.
I’m thinking Shadow might be too tough for them to understand but learning Beasts instead makes sense.
Beasts, for controlling their critters like wolves.
Metal, to reduce the ability of their enemies to survive attacks.
Fire, I think of them as kids/men playing with fire.
If you are thinking they live in cold regions then why not use the almost never used Lore of Ice from the Kislev Ice Queen?
I think you may have misunderstood the purpose of the Sorcerer in that list. I was presuming that Chaos Dwarfs would have a more creative way to stack up power dice than blow all the hero slots on slave sorcerers.
This was a slot designed for those who choose to forgoe the advantages that come with Chaos Dwarf Sorcerers, war machines and heavy armored troops or the grots and power that come with Orcs & Goblins or the heavy-armored heavy-weapon wielders one could get in a Dogs of War army and instead focus on the speedy cavarly, scouting and low-strength shooting one gets with straight Hobgoblins.
So I’m not even intending to make them directly available to Chaos Dwarfs (I suppose if everyone felt they were needed, I could change that and create a special rule to change their lores when they are working in CD armies like I have with the O&G armies).
So one would expect to see them using Hobgoblin-y powers rather than merely copying that which Chaos Dwarfs would use. Fire is WAY overused so I figured going with the lore that suggests lightning and luck would be better and more themely.
Metal just… doesn’t really seem to fit at all, I just can’t see it. Yes, it does help a lot on negating armor saves which does help an army that really only puts out S4 max hits
Shadow is the only lore that suggests anything about illusion or trickery.
On the other hand, I hadn’t even considered the Ice lore because I considered that one to be a Kislev exclusive lore. It would certainly be fitting and I could see it replacing either Heavens or Shadow, whichever one seems less likely for them to utilize on large scale (or perhaps, whichever one is mechanically less helpful).
Personally I would have preferred to see a hobgoblin only lore somewhere between the little and big waaaghs. Presumably as greenskins they still venerate Gork and Mork?
There might even be a way to create a spell lore based around poison? Thinking as I type
There’s a few typos:
p7 p18 hobhound should be M8
p16 sorcerer rule should read Sorcerer is a level 1 wizard
Wolfriders p19 170 pts?
Why should a storm raven cause terror? Doesn’t sound very terrifying.
I think a bow would be better than a longbow for archers.
Is the BT three crew? Could it be 2 for 1?
Overall the slots are 4, 3, 1, which is a little light on choice IMO. A chariot wouldn’t hurt, and you need at least one more rare.
The tiger raiders are good, but I’m sceptical about the tiger theme itself. If this is to represent any steppe hobgoblin army it means there must be a LOT of tigers around. I may have been tempted to go for ‘Beast Riders’ and had it at 40mm based with 2 hobgoblins mounted on each one.
Overall it’s generally well written, a few typos/ grammer, but the standard of writing itself is very good.
Some of the names of things are far from what I imagine for hobgoblins of any sort, your ones seem very civilised.
Thanks for catching the typoes for me. A lot of my mistakes had to do with copying/pasting text and neglecting to update the stat boxes or text when I did.
As for your comments
1) A Storm Raven is well… the Thunderbird but all black. It is a bird roughly the size of a Gryphon capable of snatching up horses in its claws. I figured I had to come up with some big, nasty mount that could fly and scare people, but maybe it would be okay with only causing fear instead of terror.
2) I put the longbow down as an upgrade to the Archer who starts with a bow. I figured I’d put the option of getting the extra 6" for 150% of the cost of the normal unit. But maybe even that isn’t necessary-- it just looked bland without any options and my only other thought (poisoned arrows) was a bit over-the-top.
3) I wouldn’t be adverse to more units, but it seemed to me that keeping it small and compact was frugal. A chariot I want to steer clear of because I don’t simply want to give them identical equipment to normal Goblins and the chariot falls more into the realm of ‘war machines’ which I’d prefer to leave to the little guys. I had Wind Daemons before, but took them out figuring they didn’t really fit the feel and theme of the army.
4) Well, I was figuring the tigers would 5x as common as Hydra (Dark Elf Rare Choice) and well… no more common than Pegasi (a unit is a Special choice for Brets allowing them to field 20+ Pegasi in an army!) and certainly they’d be easier to train and field than Chaos Trolls, Dragon Ogres, etc.
5) The names… right now I’m just using the most bland, simple, straight-forward names for a lot of the troops necessary. Warriors could just as easily be “Bandits” and Archers could be “Arrer Gitz” and Rogues could be “Sneaky Gitz” in my final version. I just don’t want to get too bogged down in particular names right now.
Other than the copyright info and various typoes, the book should be about complete now. Save for adding things from this point.
Now, certainly I take under advisement that I need at least one other rare choice. Other than chariots, any other suggestions?
I understand that “Storm Raven” might not be conjuring up images of a giant night-colored bird that lives inside storm clouds and swoops down to snatch people off of horses and ships. Calling it just a “Roc” has been suggested-- or I could use any one of the hundreds of Native American names for the Thunder Bird giving it more weight.
Another thing I’ve considered is adding in the Imogi-- it is to the Eastern Dragon sort of what the Wyvern is to the Western Dragon, a wicked half-formed lesser dragon. I don’t know about making it a mount, but perhaps that could be my other rare choice.
As for additional fluff, I’m considering adding in a line somewhere about “hobgoblin” being the Empire’s term for the hobgoblins while Brettonians call them “lutin”, and Cathay calls them “dokaebi”-- and the hobgoblins just use whichever the locals like to call them, although maybe 3 (4 if you count ‘Morky Boyz’) words for one type of greenskin is a bit much.
Right now I think I have the bases in the army list fairly well covered. Besides heroes you have
1) Regular foot soldiers who can be used in great numbers, but at slow and squishy. Decent for protecting the flanks.
2) Archers who can shoot incoming enemies or shoot up squishy enemies to soften them up for the cavarly to charge them
3) Cheap cavarly fodder that isn’t expected to win (they deal WS3 S4 hits, but they don’t get banner or rank bonuses making winning a melee near impossible) but run fast enough to not slow the cavarly, are cheap enough that one shouldn’t mind loses them in mass and hit hard enough that they might just stay a turn before fleeing allowing the cavarly to get the charge.
4) Relatively cheap light-medium cavarly that is meant to be the primary force. They can be adjusted to be shooting or to charge in and beat the enemy by a mix of charge power and static CR.
5) Infantry that can appear on the other side of the map and kill high T targets. Because they scout they will be mixing it up in melee as the cavarly charges in (unlike normal warriors who might be useless except against armies that nullify cavarly) and even if they don’t kill things, they could prove to be a dangeorus distraction that allows the cavarly to get the flank as the enemy wastes time taking out the cheap scouts.
6) Beefed up medium cavarly who get an extra attack and are immune to psychology until the first time they break! These guys allow you to charge fear and terror causing units which would otherwise be insurmountable for the regular cavarly.
7) A simple war machine that allows the army to output those absolutely essential S6 D3 wound hits that would be necessary to crack certain units in the game.
8) Really beefed up super-heavy cavarly that output a LOT of hits, don’t die easily (although they are easier to kill than some other cavarly units, but since they cause fear and this army has a number of other cavarly to protect them, maybe they don’t need to be!) and their power doesn’t fade much on the subsequent rounds allowing them to stick in combat against things that won’t necessarily die on the charge.
Overall, the army should (if I’ve thought this through correctly) be able to charge right through shooting without taking any particularly important casualties, have enough mobility to typically get the flank and enough static CR to beat the nastier armies where mobility isn’t going to help. Nothing is ‘unkillable’ using a proper selection of forces.
Weaknesses that I might like to shore up:
1) The army neither nullfies magic particularly well nor casts magic particularly well. Right now all successful armies seem to be one or the other. Leaving them middle-of-the-line is effectively ignoring this aspect of the game might be crippling.
2) No protection against other cavarly armies-- perhaps not entirely true as the Hobhounds do provide sort of a ‘protection’ and the units are more mobile than the Brets (save for Pegasi) so maybe it isn’t really a weakness that needs examined.
3) Some of the units in the ‘special’ section are going to be absolutely essential to achieving victory. Although the army has units that can attack fear-causers and there are weapons that can crack high-armor, high-toughness units, all these things are under the ‘special’ section and an army that is expected to go up against multiple armies will find it difficult to create an army that can combat the armies that spam with these advantages (and, what’s worse, aren’t going to lose to the static CR of wolfriders!) Its making me think that forgoing lances might be a really bad idea no matter how little having lances seems to fit the army’s concept.
4) Warriors are kind of useless in my conception of how the army would function-- can’t really just throw them out since a list without some kind of foot soldier is unheard of and they are necessary for the Chaos Dwarfs, but within their own list there is a big question mark over their purpose. Perhaps I could rewrite their options to allow them to have pikes or halberds or great weapons, but then I’m not sure if such weapons fit the theme of sneaky, creepy, beast-loving tribesmen.
5) The army does suck on the defense-- even though it has expendible numbers, they really aren’t as cheap as O&G are with the various upgrades and special skills on them. The units will stand and do nothing 1/6th of the time, and very few troops have armor of T above 3. When stacked against all the various armies that have 2+ armor save, T4 models hitting the battlefield at an only marginal more cost than these units I’m having trouble imagining them being able to break such units-- particularly when they aren’t looking at outputting more than S4 hits.
I’ve made quite a few changes in the pdf-- it is at the same link, most are minor point cost changes but I’ve also added the following:
1) An army-wide rule that gives the Hobgoblins a bonus +1CR while outnumbering the opponent (it is added to the usual ‘outnumber’ bonus so anything that negates that bonus would negate it as well)
2) Tiger Raiders count as Unit Strength 3
3) Dragoons-- Effectively Hobgoblin Knights with barded wolfs and lances, this will help fix the lack of decent armored units and high strength hits the army was hurting for.
4) War Wagon - I finally gave in and created a Rare Chariot unit, but not just a chariot… a tough chariot pulled by 4 wolfs and capable of carrying a bolt thrower with the fluff that it is a stolen merchant’s wagon being abused for fun.
5) Barded Giant Wolfs and the War Wagon are not mount options for characters
This ought to sharpen the army’s teeth a bit while not overpowering any single unit.
Looks awesome so far. I think it needs more pictures though. I just started converting my BFSP Hobgoblins, and I look forward to your book!
VERY nice, I love it. If only gw would approach you and try to publish this, making it legal…
I realize when my server went down and I lost everything on it, this book was lost as well. Luckily someone saved a copy on another website (yay!)
So… yeah… if anyone ever did want to see it again, here you go.
Thanks been a long time coming but worth the wait
Link to PDF available?
Try the one from a few days ago
Try the one from a few days ago
I missed it. Thanks for pointing that out!:hat off