Vogon:
Title says it al really.
I’m starting on converting some Raiders but am unsure the best way to equip them.
I’m tempted by the bows as a mobile shooting unit but I also think that the spears may come in useful for flank and rear charges where their cowardly despoiler rule would also be an opportunistic boon to an ongoing combat.
I’m not going to bother with shields as I don’t want to lose the fast cav bonuses.
Cheers
Vogon
JonJon:
Both and you don’t loose the fast cav anymore buy the shields
The_Bear_in_the_Hat:
Have they corrected the shields rule in an errata? If so, where can I find it?
JonJon:
I withdraw my first post I was dead wrong …sorry
Vogon:
You can only take one option per unit, much as I would love bows and spears it’s one or the other I’m afraid.
Cheers
Vogon
JonJon:
Sorry on pain killers today ,misread it and jumped to a wild conclusion
Thommy H:
Bows. Fast cavalry are wasted equipped for combat, especially when there are better options for things that move fast and kill well in the list. They can harry war machines and lone characters just as well (if not better) at range.
Vogon:
Thanks Tommy H.
Bows it is then 
Bitterman:
I disagree, FWIW. Giving Fast Cavalry bows is often fairly pointless IME…
For a start, the major feature of FC is that they are fast (go figure), that’s largely what you pay the points for. An HG on foot can move and shoot at something 28" away (4" + 24") - how often do you really need to shoot bows at something 42" (18" + 24") away? Not that often. Of course - the speed of FC means they find it much easier to get line of sight at targets trying to hide, not just absolute range, which goes some way towards providing some value.
Then you need to ask what FC shooting can actually do. FC usually come in small units of 5-10, more often 5 than 10; their shooting is usually BS3 (like our Wolf Raiders, though some Elves are BS4) and S3, Empire Pistoliers being the one exception I can think of to this, off the top of my head? So you’re looking at perhaps 5 shots hitting on 5s or 6s or worse (you’ll have moved and may be at long range or the target may be in cover), typically wounding on 4s or 5s… you’ll be doing well to inflict even 1 wound against any target. “Ideal” targets like lone characters may have armour or ward saves, or Look Out Sir if they’re near another unit (when are they not?), and war machines are probably T7 versus shooting. Basically the only thing FC can shoot at effectively is other FC (skirmishers are too hard to hit, other units are too large to care about 5 bow shots).
Contrast that to giving them spears instead (which is usually actually cheaper in points cost than bows, can’t remember if that’s the case for Wolf Raiders though). With their speed, they can easily be positioned to threaten the war machines at the rear, the lone character skulking near a unit, or the flank of a main unit you can charge with your Infernal Guard, all at once… the opponent is unlikely to be able to protect all three. Against war machines, all five models can fight, that’s ten attacks with the wolves, and they’re S4 with spears versus only T3 or 4 instead of 7. Against a character, only two models can fight but that’s still four attacks (only one less than if you shot at him with bows) and with +1 CR for charging, the character has to kill something even to draw the combat (give the FC a standard and musician and they’re guaranteed to win the combat against a typical A2 lone caster!). In the flank of a unit supporting your IGs, there is admittedly the risk that they will give away CR by dying but they also contribute SCR from flanking bonus (especially for our HGs) and potentially ACR from wounds, which may not be likely against a good unit but S4 from spears can give them a helping hand.
Whether they have spears or bows doesn’t affect movement blocking, redirecting, march blocking, etc that FC can do. So basically, IMO, it comes down to a simple choice: pay (typically) 3ppm for bows in the hope that over the course of the game you might take a wound or two off a war machine, or (typically) 1ppm for spears (though to be fair, if you do this you may consider a standard and musician as well, which also costs points) to make them a genuine nuisance and a potential threat (you’re almost certain to lock combat for a turn or two, and wouldn’t have to be too lucky to win) against war machines, characters, exposed flanks etc.
To be sure, it’s not 100% clear cut. It can vary on if you plan to take 5 or 10 (more is rarely worthwhile), how they fit into your overall tactics, the opposition you’re facing (won’t always know this in advance) etc etc etc. And where there’s the option to do so (so not our Wolf Raiders), taking both is often viable (though it tends to push the points costs unacceptably high), especially as FC in general is not as effective as it used to be before 8th Ed, due to random charges if nothing else (my DE Dark Riders haven’t seen action in a long while). For me though, given a choice between one or the other, I’d normally plump for spears over bows.
nilbog:
All very valid points.
However, why do you want wolf raiders when a khan does the same job but more reliably?
Vogon:
@ Bitterman: Thank you that is a very in-depth response and has actually swayed me to go with spears rather than bows and use give bows to a unit of foot sloggers I was leaning towards spears from a visual point of view anyway.
@ Nilbog: I�?Tm sorry to say that including them is basically because I�?Tm converting some up using the new 40K wolves and some storm vermin as I think they look cool In game efficiency has never been a big thing for me.
I�?Tll post some pictures in my blog when I get them a bit further along.
Cheers
Vogon
nilbog:
Converting is always a good reason to make up a unit…I just wish I had the time!
The space wolf wolves are excellent. I’ve got some for my space wolf wolf lord on thunderwolf as extra wolves.
Loki:
I am with Tommy H, Bows are the way forward for these guys, i have played agaisnt the and they are a pain , if your enemy goes after them it wates one of their units to hunt them down or if they shoot them its fire they not putting in so something more nasty, but if they leave them they know that you will get them in to their war machines and really make a mess of things if no war machines just ride round firing arrows at units to soften them up for a charge by your foot troops.
Thommy H:
I can only speak from experience, and I’m a massive fan of fast cavalry with missile weapons - RH Hobgoblin Wolf Riders with bows were literally the best unit in Warhammer. I haven’t used them as Raiders and I suspect they won’t be as good (especially as they can’t be run as fast cavalry with a 4+ armour save - finally losing out to their Goblin cousins…) but my instinct is always that fast cav won’t do much in combat anyway since they have no rank bonus, so you might as well use their insane range to shoot at vulnerable units.
Bitterman:
All very valid points.Haha... well, that's a different question. :D I don't think FC is very good in 8th Edition anyway, so I'm not sure I'd ever take them in a competitive list (but they do look cool in a fluffy list); I was really only trying to consider bows versus spears.
However, why do you want wolf raiders when a khan does the same job but more reliably?
nilbog
nilbog:
Animosity, basically. They might suffer a panic test, which they will probably fail. Or suffer d3 wounds, reducing the number of wounds and attacks to that of a single khan anyway. Or be absolutely fine.
The khan doesn’t suffer from these problems. Seeing as both do the same jobs, his higher strength and weapon skill make him that bit better.
Bitterman:
Fair enough. I’d forgotten about the D3 wounds, I just thought it was +1 to hit, which is fine for a unit of 30 Cut-throats, but crippling for 5 Wolf Raiders!
I suppose that with a 1/3 chance they’ll either (probably) run away or about half of them die, it does make them rather less useful. You can keep them near a unit of CDs for the start of turn one, but after that they’re likely to be on their own… fair point. Still not clear cut I think, but I do understand rather more clearly why many people prefer the Khan, now.
MLP:
Animosity, basically. They might suffer a panic test, which they will probably fail. Or suffer d3 wounds, reducing the number of wounds and attacks to that of a single khan anyway. Or be absolutely fine.Although I agree with some of your points I don't think the Khan and Raiders do the same jobs. They do SOME of the same jobs but both units have unique roles.
The khan doesn't suffer from these problems. Seeing as both do the same jobs, his higher strength and weapon skill make him that bit better.
nilbog