Admiral:
From here. Something for our mad scientists, perhaps?
Has anyone decided to make an experimental slave race of the Chaos Dwarfs as a twisted fusion of Greenskin and Beastman? Like Minotorks or Ungorblins?
Warhammer-Fan
Uther the unhinged:
Interesting concept. Mind you the last bug breeding program (black IRC�?Ts) went pear shaped. You would have to think what attributes you wanted. I could see Minotaur and ogres ( brighter Minotaur possibly less organised (and thus less likely to organise) ogres. MInotaurs and orcs could just make Black minotaurs… not good. Best Igors and orcs…possibly ferocious less likely to organise orcs, but why not just orcs? Now chaos hounds and giant wolves could be pretty. Trouble is we have got scared but clever hobgobs, strong but dumb orcs and stronger but dumber ogres. If you make things too clever or strong you get problems (see above!).
Having said that you could take hobgoblins and …er… enhance them a little cyborg-wise. I already have plans for metal legged fast Hingis with pistols (40k Gretchen) to count as Kairic acolytes in my bizarre counts as disciple of Tzeench cd army. Still not sure if the should have 2 or 3 metal legs. We will see.
Dînadan:
Question is, what races in the Warhammer World are actually able to interbreed? Unlike in D&D I don�?Tt think there are any canon examples of inter-species breeding. And if there are, it�?Tll probably be back from second or third Ed, so it�?Ts canonisity would be dubious.
At most I think humans and beastmen might be able to breed considering some beastmen are born to human parents or mutate from humans.
I think what would be more likely would be sorcerers using alchemy and sorcery to modify an existing race and breed those (similar to the creations of Clan Moulder for the Skaven).
Ultimately I think it�?Td come down to pragmatism - is there a need for a new race or a niche that existing ones don�?Tt fill? If there isn�?Tt then I don�?Tt think Chaos Dwarfs would bother with such experiments, especially given the failure of the Black Orc experiment.
Given this line of thought, what do we have:
Hobgoblins - canonically overseers of other slaves
Goblins - weak but numerous
Orcs - strong and somewhat numerous
Ogres - stronger than orcs, but have high dietary requirements
Humans - between goblins and orcs in strength
Dwarfs - probably not used for slave labour; Dawi Zharr �?~slaves�?T are probably all packed off to the Infernal Guard, while vanilla Dwarfs are probably tortured/executed in the case of males and used as concubines in the case of females considering the gender disparity and low dwarf birth rate
Elves - again not likely used for labour; probably either tortured or used as ingredients for alchemy, sorcery, etc
Ungors - strength similar to humans but less disciplined.
Gors - on par with orcs
Minotaurs - like ogres but more savage and lower food upkeep
Trolls - ogre strength but stupider; given troll meat is a vanilla dwarf delicacy would probably be used as livestock.
Giant wolves and Chaos Hounds - probably given to the Hobgoblins to use as mounts.
Squigs - too unpredictable to be any use
Giants - stronger and dumber than ogres; probably used as a heavy lifter for mining, construction, etc
Various monsters - probably used as pets and/or mounts of the wealthy and as alchemical/sorcery ingredients
Anything I�?Tve missed?
Abecedar:
Question is, what races in the Warhammer World are actually able to interbreed? Unlike in D&D I don�?Tt think there are any canon examples of inter-species breeding. And if there are, it�?Tll probably be back from second or third Ed, so it�?Ts canonisity would be dubious.I agree with pretty much all of that. Was it Mudat's half Orc Mercenaries from the 3rd Ed. Dogs of war regiments?
At most I think humans and beastmen might be able to breed considering some beastmen are born to human parents or mutate from humans.
I think what would be more likely would be sorcerers using alchemy and sorcery to modify an existing race and breed those (similar to the creations of Clan Moulder for the Skaven).
Ultimately I think it�?Td come down to pragmatism - is there a need for a new race or a niche that existing ones don�?Tt fill? If there isn�?Tt then I don�?Tt think Chaos Dwarfs would bother with such experiments, especially given the failure of the Black Orc experiment
Trolls - ................... given troll meat is a vanilla dwarf delicacy would probably be used as livestock.
Dînadan
But "Troll Meat" yuch.
Dînadan:
You say yuck, but it�?Ts actually a fairly sustainable food source - no need to slaughter the livestock, just hack chunks out and let it regen before hacking more out.
tjub:
In the Kings of War-fluff Abyssal Dwarfs created the Ratmen as slaves, which in turn escaped… Not sure what the “ingredients” were other than black magic and alchemy.
Dînadan:
In the Kings of War-fluff Abyssal Dwarfs created the Ratmen as slaves, which in turn escaped... Not sure what the "ingredients" were other than black magic and alchemy.Presumably men and rats...no, wait, that�?Td make manrats...
tjub
�Y~o
Abecedar:
You say yuck, but it�?Ts actually a fairly sustainable food source - no need to slaughter the livestock, just hack chunks out and let it regen before hacking more out.Don't you remember what happened to Grom?
Dînadan
Dînadan:
He gained the ability to regenerate. Besides, I�?Tm sure it�?Ts perfectly safe if properly cooked...You say yuck, but it�?Ts actually a fairly sustainable food source - no need to slaughter the livestock, just hack chunks out and let it regen before hacking more out.Don't you remember what happened to Grom?
Dînadan
Abecedar
Abecedar:
I forgot about the having to cook the troll meat bit!
Just had to read the Saga of grom the Paunch again.
Grom the Paunch | Warhammer Wiki | Fandom
Admiral:
Forwarding from him:
Looking at what they think, I don’t mean interbreeding. I mean injecting Orkoid Fungus directly into a developing human embryo to create Half-Orcs. Same with hybrids of Ogres and Beastmen.As to means, sorcery is usually the magical ingredient.
Warhammer-Fan
Cheers
Dînadan:
Are Greenskins fungi in Fantasy? Thought that was only a 40k thing…
tjub:
Are Greenskins fungi in Fantasy? Thought that was only a 40k thing...In AoS its quite possible, Im not 100 sure it really say that they are. But I think so... Its more like the tend to "pop up", Squigs come from fungi spore though. It sas in the Gloomspite Gitz Battletome.
Dînadan
gsteelwraith:
Question is, what races in the Warhammer World are actually able to interbreed? Unlike in D&D I don�?Tt think there are any canon examples of inter-species breeding. And if there are, it�?Tll probably be back from second or third Ed, so it�?Ts canonisity would be dubious.Well, we know they tried using Skaven as slaves (the old Chaos Dwarf Army Book is my reference here), but given their perfidiousness, Chaos Dwarves simply kill them rather than bother taking them as slaves.
At most I think humans and beastmen might be able to breed considering some beastmen are born to human parents or mutate from humans.
I think what would be more likely would be sorcerers using alchemy and sorcery to modify an existing race and breed those (similar to the creations of Clan Moulder for the Skaven).
Ultimately I think it�?Td come down to pragmatism - is there a need for a new race or a niche that existing ones don�?Tt fill? If there isn�?Tt then I don�?Tt think Chaos Dwarfs would bother with such experiments, especially given the failure of the Black Orc experiment.
Given this line of thought, what do we have:
Hobgoblins - canonically overseers of other slaves
Goblins - weak but numerous
Orcs - strong and somewhat numerous
Ogres - stronger than orcs, but have high dietary requirements
Humans - between goblins and orcs in strength
Dwarfs - probably not used for slave labour; Dawi Zharr �?~slaves�?T are probably all packed off to the Infernal Guard, while vanilla Dwarfs are probably tortured/executed in the case of males and used as concubines in the case of females considering the gender disparity and low dwarf birth rate
Elves - again not likely used for labour; probably either tortured or used as ingredients for alchemy, sorcery, etc
Ungors - strength similar to humans but less disciplined.
Gors - on par with orcs
Minotaurs - like ogres but more savage and lower food upkeep
Trolls - ogre strength but stupider; given troll meat is a vanilla dwarf delicacy would probably be used as livestock.
Giant wolves and Chaos Hounds - probably given to the Hobgoblins to use as mounts.
Squigs - too unpredictable to be any use
Giants - stronger and dumber than ogres; probably used as a heavy lifter for mining, construction, etc
Various monsters - probably used as pets and/or mounts of the wealthy and as alchemical/sorcery ingredients
Anything I�?Tve missed?
Dînadan
To me, any slaves that are created should be relatively fecund, but need to be able to handle the iron discipline of being legionnaires. They need to create something along the lines of the Uruk-hai from Lord of the Rings. Perhaps cross-breeding Hobgoblins and Orcs to get the Fighting Uruk-hai, might do the trick.
Uther the truly unhinged:
@Gsteelwraith: I am not sure about iron disciplined slaves. The problem with the black orcs was precisely that they could organise. Thinking about slave races, if you just consider those for war you have to think what we lack. We have elite heavy armoured infantry, light infantry and light cavalry (hobgoblins). We have artillery. We have super heavy cavalry (BCs in LoA). We have super heavy infantry (Kdaii). What do we lack? Heavy cavalry certainly. There is a boarcentaur shaped hole in our forces. You could also make a case for more resilient super heavy infantry eg ogres/Minotaurs and lastly light aerial troops. You could use furies but I do like the idea of winged Hobgoblins or gnoblars. Could harpies breed with gnoblars?
Dînadan:
Heavy Cav could be filled if they retconned the old Bull Centaurs back in with those being �?~regular�?T bull centaurs and the larger Renders being something like �?~exalted�?T ones or even older ones (perhaps make the retcon be that bull centaurs constantly grow throughout their lives and the only reason there aren�?Tt any giant sized ones is that they all meet a violent end before they get old enough).
Admiral:
Remember how I suggested the Chaos Dwarfs injecting a needle-full of Orcoid Fungus into a developing human embryo to create Half-Orcs, Half-Goblins, and Half-Hobgoblins randomly? What about doing the same to Ogre fetuses to make Orogs, half-orc half-ogre? Or trolls. Trollblins, Hobtrollblins, Ogroblins. Basically, a demented menagerie of mutant troglodytic hybrids of alien fungus and beastly primitive humanoids. Then there could be mutants among the Orcs, Goblins, and Hobgoblins from their spores developing in lands tainted by Chaps down to the very soil they develop within, and Chaos Dwarf & Vermin flesh-vats where mixtures of warpstone and unlucky slaves and captured beasts are churned together into Chaos-Spawn esque monsters comparable to Rat-Ogres. Further mechanical upgrades by demented Daemon-Smiths could create truly unique encounters for someone with enough spare parts and imagination to make.
Warhammer-Fan
Uther the unhinged:
Oh absolutely! The joy of CDs is that an individual sorceror/daemonsmith could create a whole army of bizarre creatures to serve and fight for them.