[Archive] K'daai fire throwers?

Archive [Archive] Rules Development
1

Grimstonefire:

I was wondering today about the K’daai and what variant forms FW could base on the same principles.

Only one that really made sense to me was a flaming missile unit that were slightly worse in combat to compensate a bit.

I imagined them hurling balls of fire or flaming metal.

Thoughts?

2

Admiral:

It should work. It reminds me of Lords of Magic’s lava ball throwing fire giants.

An actual flamethrower K’daai variant (sizewise between Fireborn and Destroyer) wouldn’t be out of place, though it would step on the Magma Cannon’s toes.

One could also imagine K’daai Fireborn being shot from possessed artillery batteries into enemy lines, delivering ensorcelled armour and bound fire Daemons in a punishing cascade to the battlefield. Ruleswise Fireborn would probably take their toughness test at -1 at the very least when “parachuted” in this brutal way. Whilst a tad silly, it would fit in with their expendability, short and furious battlefield existence and the Chaos Dwarf’s calluous disregard for their slaves whether they be Daemonkin or mortal.

One thing to remember about K’daai for background aspects is their high utility in naval warfare against the wooden vessels of lesser races, so long as the enemy ships needn’t be captured and salvaged for the value of its wood (for fuel, building material and mine props).

3

Grimstonefire:

I think treating k’daai effectively like a stone thrower would be redundant, give the war machines.  It would also be awkward rules wise to write that if they were not just a missile.

I could also see a larger variant form of K’daai that has ‘living weapons’ (i.e. can choose between GW or additional, maybe ranged as well) and falls half way between a regular and a destroyer.  Ranks up with k’daai.

4

Dînadan:

Building on Admiral’s flamethrower idea how about something with a breath weapon, but it hurts itself (or risks hurting itself) when it breathes fire to represent it expending the energies keeping it alive/bound to its armour?

Another idea, maybe a more ‘volatile’ K’daai somewhere between Fireborn and destroyer - does damage in an area effect at the start of whatever phase, but burns out quicker.

Maybe also have a variant of either Fireborn or Destroyer that ‘feeds’ on flaming attacks/magic and gets stat boosts if hit by flaming attacks or effected by Fire/metal/etc spells?

5

Admiral:

Good ideas, Grimstonefire and Dînadan.

The catapult K’daai would indeed be an awkward tabletop unit (best not to expand into rules), but could backgroundwise make sense for the twisted Chaos Dwarfs. After all, this would equip their armies with a siege engine that would not only do some minor damage to enemy battlements with their shots, but actually deliver expendable troops onto or behind enemy walls.

6

Grimstonefire:

That’s a good point actually, I can just imagine a machine firing massive lumps of flaming mis-shapen metal up onto the battlements.  Those defending are killed, then a few minutes later when those nearby are coming closer to see what it was it expands into a k’daai and wreaks more carnage.

I’ve often thought of the CD army as being an ‘army of a thousand nations’ equivalent, where some engineer comes up with a crazy warmachine idea and gets commissioned to make a few.  Spread that idea across the whole of a city it would produce some highly experimental but individual weapons of war and unique armies.

@Dinadan

I like the idea of an area effect weapon, but increasingly volatile. It’s like a nuclear bomb going critical!

7

Dînadan:

The catapult K'daai would indeed be an awkward tabletop unit (best not to expand into rules), but could backgroundwise make sense for the twisted Chaos Dwarfs. After all, this would equip their armies with a siege engine that would not only do some minor damage to enemy battlements with their shots, but actually deliver expendable troops onto or behind enemy walls.

Admiral
Don't think rules would be that complicated. How about something like fired like a stone thrower and uses the black powder misfire chart. After resolving the hit, place a single K'daai Fireborn in the centre of template; if this would be in the centre of a unit, place the K'daai in base contact with the unit in the nearest legal spot. The K'daai takes a S4 hit with multiple wounds (D3) (to represent being lobbed through the air hardly being good for its health :p). In combat the K'daai counts as having charged.

Biggest issue is how to work out how unfired K'daai work. I can think of one of two options:
1) the warmachine has a built in bound spell that summons one K'daii to be fired.
Or
2) the warmachine has three K'daai has additional crew and each time one is successfully fired it is removed from the crew (randomise which K'daai is fired in the event one is already wounded). If at any time all Chaos Dwarf crew are killed, any remaining K'daii either get destroyed or break free as a skirmisher unit and go berserk.
8

Admiral:

@Grimstonefire: Me too. Chaos Dwarfs should be highly excentric and varied, mystic and inventive. These are Chaos Dwarfs after all! Just look at the Hellcannon.

@Dînadan: Very good solution. For balance issues I guess a limited ammunition store of K’daai “crew” would be the best solution. In fact, the war machine could be picked with two or three K’daai Fireborn as standard, and upgraded for more shots. Once it runs out of fire Daemons, the very specialized cannon would no longer be able to shoot. Or would some low-damage projectile remain available?

How about statlines and points costs? I’d like to see this siege engine made into a functional unit entry. :smiley:

9

Dînadan:

I’d say keep it simple and have it no longer be able to shoot due to it being specially designed to fire K’daai.

10

Admiral:

Right there. Would you like to volunteer a statline and points cost? I’m lousy with all things rules.

11

Grimstonefire:

I don’t see why you’d need k’daai as crew at all?  That just complicates things doesn’t it?

Something like this you could just have a monster firing k’daai out and have handlers (using hellcannon equivalent).

12

Dînadan:

I don't see why you'd need k'daai as crew at all?  That just complicates things doesn't it?

Something like this you could just have a monster firing k'daai out and have handlers (using hellcannon equivalent).

Grimstonefire
It's a way of explaining where the K'daai come from rather than just popping into existence with no explanation, hence my other suggestion of the warmachine having a bound spell to summon a K'daai to 'prep' itself for firing. Just personal taste, but for something like this it just feels like there needs to be some record of the 'ammo'. Plus if the warmachine got charged why would the Chaos Dwarfs fight the attackers rather than 'activating' the K'daai to do so on their behalf.

That said I suppose you could have the fluff be they summon the K'daai and not bother with an in game mechanic to avoid awkwardness. And come to think of it the O&G Doom Driver doesn't track it's living ammo, so it won't be out of place to ignore the K'daai just appearing from nowhere with no explanation.
13

ThorAxe:

considering there’s now a dataslate that allows the exalted flamer from the tzeentch flamer chariot thing to be run without the chariot, as a hero who can join units and continue to use his flame cannon/grapeshot as a hero choice, not so out there.