[Archive] Khan's as a "unit"

Fuggit Khan:

Over the weekend I played a couple of friendly 2500 pt games with some friends…friendly games with no real competitive drama, but rather just to try out fun stuff to see if it worked or not for us.
I did something new to me (and as far as I know may not even be legal rules wise): I took 6 hobgoblin wolf raiders (one upgraded to a standard bearer) armed with hand weapons and shields (I prefer the parry 6+ ward save over the fast cavalry option). Then I added 4 Khans with Gold Sigil Sword, Mask of Eee, Sword of Swiftslaying and Sword of Battle. Put all 4 Khans in front rank with the standard bearer and 5 wolf raiders as the second rank. Turned out to be a pretty awesome unit that mauled the enemy with each charge. Again, this may or may not be rule friendly (I could not find any rule that says otherwise), but it was fun and remarkably effective (albeit perhaps cheesy)…has anybody else thought of this type of combo? Is it rule friendly?

NoisyAssassin:

I don’t see anything in your description that would be questionable rules-wise. Multiple characters are allowed to join a single unit, and they are placed in the front rank, displacing rank-n-file troops (except command) where possible. So everything seems to check out.

The only thing that doesn’t is that cavalry don’t get parry saves, so your shields are only giving you +1 armor rather than that and a parry.

Fuggit Khan:

Thanks, it never occured to me that cavalry can’t make a parry save…I thought it applied to all close combat. That’s good feedback :hat off

And yeah, I don’t see any rules that forbid putting 4 characters in the front rank, but both of my friends raised their eyebrows and wondered if there is a hero limit within a unit when using the ‘same’ hero type.

NoisyAssassin:

Parry saves are for infantry only. Not sure where the actual rule is, but probably wherever it discusses parries.

As for characters, it’s very common for O&G players to make a wall of goblin big bosses with great weapons in the front of a unit. It’s great fun!

Da Crusha:

it sounds like an interesting idea. how much are you spending for a unit like that?

Grimbold Blackhammer:

Don’t Ogres use that tactic pretty much every game?!

Fuggit Khan:

it sounds like an interesting idea. how much are you spending for a unit like that?

Da Crusha
If memory serves me right, I think it was 377 points total (roughly). In two games, one against Empire and another against Dark Elves, they performed quite well, losing only 5 wolf raiders total outta both games (although I did manage a few parry saves which appears was wrong). But they managed to take out supporting units on the side flanks, caused panic tests for the Empire, ran down fleeing units and mopped up Dark Elf war machines quite easily (including 2 chariots). They were pretty cost effective in terms of victory points.
A well equipped single Khan on wolf is generally a nuisance factor for an opponent, but 4 Khans working together with a rank bonus was an unexpected game changer...

Bolg:

Intersting idea, Ive seen it been used with 5+ Gobbo heroes in a Night goblin unit, nothing wrong with the tactic.

Rule wise the command grout most be in the front when they deploy/move but you may replace the command with characters using the make way rule (even the champion its in the FAQ) if they get in combat.

I would defiantly also take a musician and a boss, musician for quick reform as they are not fast cav and a boss so you can have a the entire front of boss + 4 bigbosses, so its impossible to attack the unit. (thats not something I would do myself as allocating all hits at you takes forever.) buts entirely legal.

Da Crusha:

seems neat but what did you leave out of your hero slot? usually mine is pretty full with bsb, khan and deamonsmith.

gashnag:

Intersting idea, Ive seen it been used with 5+ Gobbo heroes in a Night goblin unit, nothing wrong with the tactic.

Rule wise the command grout most be in the front when they deploy/move but you may replace the command with characters using the make way rule (even the champion its in the FAQ) if they get in combat.

I would defiantly also take a musician and a boss, musician for quick reform as they are not fast cav and a boss so you can have a the entire front of boss + 4 bigbosses, so its impossible to attack the unit. (thats not something I would do myself as allocating all hits at you takes forever.) buts entirely legal.

Bolg
In the FAQ Khans put on Wolves that are not given a shield counts as fast cav.

KramDratta:

I would defiantly also take a musician and a boss, musician for quick reform as they are not fast cav

Bolg
As per FAQ, if they do not have shields then the entire unit is Fast Cav ;)

Fuggit Khan:

seems neat but what did you leave out of your hero slot? usually mine is pretty full with bsb, khan and deamonsmith.

Da Crusha
I went very, very light on other heroes: just a single level 3 Sorceror Prophet (lore of Hashut) with a dispel scroll and Ironcurse Icon. My idea was not to get into close combat with my core Chaos Dwarf guys, using Ash Storm to slow my opponent down, and let war machines do all the killing. So I sacrificed having a BSB and figured the Khans would be out of range for any inspiring presence anyways, so what the heck, no BSB. A gamble, I admit...but my core unit/Sorceror managed to avoid combat both games because my opponents were so focused on the Khans running around and bogged down against 2 Iron Daemons and Ash Storm.

Bolg:

As per FAQ, if they do not have shields then the entire unit is Fast Cav ;)

KramDratta
I know that, But I'd rather have a musician and shields all around than fast cav

gIL^:

You ever see the unit of 92 Night Goblins with Warlord & 7 Goblin Heroes naked with great weapons?

LD 9 stubborn Rerollable Block of doom!! about 850 Might be alot for a block but goblin armies are sooooo Cheap.

nicque-ta-mare:

I have thought about using a tactic like this but Khans can’t get great weapons and they are ~25% more expensive than gobbos so I don’t see it as good value. If it works for you though, yeah absolutely

gIL^:

I have thought about using a tactic like this but Khans can't get great weapons and they are ~25% more expensive than gobbos so I don't see it as good value. If it works for you though, yeah absolutely

nicque-ta-mare
Yes, If hobgob heroes got great weapons i would take them i think.

Da Crusha:

I have thought about using a tactic like this but Khans can't get great weapons and they are ~25% more expensive than gobbos so I don't see it as good value. If it works for you though, yeah absolutely

nicque-ta-mare
Yes, If hobgob heroes got great weapons i would take them i think.


gIL^
me too, if only forgeworld put some thought into the book before releasing.....:s same old gripes with the book.

Fuggit Khan:

I have thought about using a tactic like this but Khans can't get great weapons and they are ~25% more expensive than gobbos so I don't see it as good value. If it works for you though, yeah absolutely

nicque-ta-mare
Very true...the lack of great weapons is why I chose to go with my choice of the 4 magic items on my 4 Khans. I also think this tactic I used would really only benefit for Khans in a wolf unit...the idea of using 4 Khans with magic weapons on foot in a tar pit Hobbo unit does not sound cost effective to me. Better to use those points towards a fast harassing unit to exploit flanks.