[Archive] Late for the party

Malorndk:

Hi there guys.

I have been online here for years. My old account is unacceble (has pm’ed Grimstone) but i want to get this confirmed:

1: Forgeworld made a book (ToC) which includes a functional Chaos Dwarf list, for the new units?

2: The new book isn’t official, but it’s widely accepted in stores and at turneys, though it co-exists with Ravening Hordes?

3: Its possible to mix the units from ToC into the ravening hordes list, by treating “The great host” as “Ravening Hordes - Chaos Dwarfs” in this errate?: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/t/tamurkhanQA.pdf

If you guys can confirm this, then ill have the best day in a long time, even though im late for the party.

Abecedar:

Yes. Tamurkhan is an official book. It is fully accepted officially as far as I know (baring localised disagreements)

No. It does not co-exist with ravening Hordes. And no as to the mixing of lists

cornixt:

It didn’t replace the Ravening Hordes list, but given how the RH list was left unsupported for 8th edition it is now far more popular and accepted.

gIL^:

Use the Tamurkhan book. RH hordes is over 10 years old it’s unbalanced and limited.

Nicodemus:

1: Forgeworld made a book (ToC) which includes a functional Chaos Dwarf list, for the new units?

Malorndk
As stated, the book is called "Tamurkhan: The Throne of Chaos". The Chaos Dwarf army is specifically called "The Legion of Azgorh", or LoA for short. At the risk of putting too fine a point on it though, the list doesn't describe all of the Chaos Dwarfs, and it's relatively clear from the book that the Legion of Azgorh are just one faction - that being the troops that fall under Azgorh's control (Azgorh is a Chaos Dwarf).
2: The new book isn't official, but it's widely accepted in stores and at turneys, though it co-exists with Ravening Hordes?

Malorndk
Correct. Not official, but exceptionally well accepted.  And yes, even though it co-exists with Ravening Hordes. They were very specific to point out that the LoA doesn't replace any pre-existing CD list, it's just an alternative.
3: Its possible to mix the units from ToC into the ravening hordes list, by treating "The great host" as "Ravening Hordes - Chaos Dwarfs" in this errate?: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/t/tamurkhanQA.pdf

Malorndk
This might be a stretch. The LoA list is setup that you can take it as a stand-alone list, or you can take them in a WoC army. Alternatively, you can use the LoA as "Contingent Forces" in a Chaos Great Host army (see p142 in the Tamurkhan book), or as allies in a Grand Battle (see p132 in the BRB ).

Your best bet for getting your Deathrockets, Earth Shakers and cheap Hobbos fielded would be to either a) play casual games where the group doesn't care if you do this, or b) play games that make use of the Chaos Great Host army rules.

Without giving away the rules, the gist of the Chaos Great Host army is that you must select units from at least two or all three of the following lists: WoC, Beastmen, Daemons.  For 99.9% of Warhammer players these three lists sum up 'Chaos'. For us CD players we might be asking, what about RH and LoA?  Well, the Chaos Great Host rules doesn't give any other details, it doesn't say you can't, but my impression from reading that section is that the aforementioned 3 army lists are the only 3 you should be considering.  In which case, the LoA units come in the back door via WoC. Upshot - you can't have a free-for-all with the LoA and RH lists and take what ever you want in a Chaos Great Host.  Furthermore, there's no obvious mechanism for getting access to the RH list.  Sure, just about everyone here on CDO would likely agree that the RH CD list should be grouped with 'Chaos', but it's basically been quietly forgotten and orphaned in 8th ED.  Anyway, I'd avoid the whole Chaos Great Host rules as they're quite cumbersome.  Oh, and those "Contingent Forces" I mentioned about for the Chaos Great Host army, it's spelled out that way with capitals on p167 of the Tamurkhan book, suggesting that it's a rule and they say to refer to p142 in the same book. Unfortunately, there's no mention of these "Contingent Forces" in that section that I can find. The closest thing is the subheading "Forces of the Chaos Host" which lists the 3 Chaos lists I've already mentioned above. Go figure.

Another route to get access to the RH list would be to try to get it on to the list of allowed rule books for your gaming group's Storm of Magic games, and then summon some units in!

Hope this helps.
~N

Malorndk:

Splendid replies!

Thx you guys! Ill have a little dance celebration due to the good news. This is like christmass morning!

Thommy H:

Azgorh is a volcano, not a person, actually.

Grimbold Blackhammer:

Use the Tamurkhan book. RH hordes is over 10 years old it's unbalanced and limited.

gIL^
...while Tamurkhan is merely unbalanced and limited. =)

gIL^:

Use the Tamurkhan book. RH hordes is over 10 years old it's unbalanced and limited.

gIL^
...while Tamurkhan is merely unbalanced and limited. =)


Grimbold Blackhammer
All warhammer books are unbalanced or can be made to be, We waited years for a legal Chaos Dwarf list, Ok it's not perfect but judging by you attitude you haven't been denied access to tournaments because RH is a dead army list and that was 3 years ago!

Honestly if someone came into my club with a RH list and would kindly suggest they use Tamurkhan it took us years to convince Forgeworld about a forgeworld ruleset, I won't imagine it was us that got GW to make Tamurkhan :hat off.

Saying you will use RH is like someone picking up the Hordes of Chaos book and using that although it's 2 editions old. Just doesn't make sense.

Then again it's your hobby as long as you ask your opponent if it's ok theres no problem. But i wouldn't like it seeing as theres a great list in Tamurkhan and it is pretty good, Better than undercosted units and 2 pages with one being shiny and the other bland because we are not important enough for 2 A4 pages of paper :D

Nicodemus:

Azgorh is a volcano, not a person, actually.

Thommy H
Thanks... I guess Malorndk hasn't been around enough the last couple of years to know not to trust my memory!  *I* should have known better. Funny that.

Edit:
PS, in regards to the Chaos Great Host, I missed the section on p186 (go figure, the important stuff is scattered all over and there's no hope of finding it without just flipping through the whole darn thing). FW also clarified the Chaos Great Host selection rules in their Errata document. LoA should have been a fourth army list option, so scratch what I said above!

Anyway, if you take any Legion of Azgorh units as part of a WoC army, but not as part of a Chaos Great Host army, then it's not totally open-ended in terms of what you can take. If you go the Chaos Great Host route, use those rules exclusively and see my response above. For WoC with LoA folded in, here's the gist of it:

Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer-Prophets, Daemonsmiths and Castellans can be added within your army's Lords & Heroes allowance, provided that at least one other non-character unit of Chaos Dwarfs is also taken (could be anything, such as any warmachines, which includes the Hellcannon). Chaos Dwarf Lord and Hero choices can't be the General, however, so that still has to come from WoC. A unit of "Infernals" (their wording not mine.. and it's not clear if they mean Infernal Guard, which are LoA Core or Infernal Ironsworn, which are LoA Special.) may be taken as a Special choice for every Sorcerer-Prophet or Daemonsmith in the army. The warmachines may all be taken as Rare choices.

~N