I really love the idea of a Bull Centaur themed army using a large unit as the main block. No more 2x2 formations I want to scare the opponent with much bigger!
So I’d like to discuss the merits of larger amounts of Bull Centaurs in armies and the tactics that could be used with them.
Bull Centaurs are monstrous beasts and therefore treat weapons the same as infantry on foot. Forgetting stomp for a second lets talk about Their very versatile weapon options:
Hand Weapon - Keeps the unit cheap and could potentially be good with an augment spell like “flaming sword of rhuin”(+1 to wound +flaming)combined with “ashstorm”(-1 to hit +flammable) on the enemy you will be dishing out some decent damage.
With a unit of six in 3x2 formation(full command)you’re getting 13 str4 attacks. 3+ save for defence. Use against war machines, slirmishers, small support units.
Hand weapon and shield - Gives them a 2+ 6++ save in combat. Combined with T5 W3 the unit is not going to be taking damage so easily! Otherwise it’s the same as hand weapon for damage but better survival for not many points.
With a unit of six in 3x2 formation(full command)you’re getting 13 str4 attacks. 2+ 6++ save for defence. Use against many low strength attack units as you can survive the hits easily and give back enough to win.
Additional hand weapon - for a small point cost you’re getting about 50% more attacks which is not to be shirked at. Similar use to hand weapon.
With a unit of six in 3x2 formation(full command)you’re getting 19 str4 attacks. 3+ save for defence. Use against small units with low saves similar to hand weapon and shield targets.
Great weapons - It seems to be the default choice for most people but it is a fairly expensive choice so they need to be used well. You can’t use a shield with it combat so it’s inefficient to also have them. You are also striking last but as you are only I3 anyway and your targets will probably have higher it makes no odds. Considering the relatively low attacks Bull Centaurs have great weapons are going to make those attacks more likely to wound even against much tougher opponents. Against infantry you’ll likely be wounding on a 2+ and giving -3 armour save.
With a unit of six in 3x2 formation(full command)you’re getting 13 str6 attacks. 3+ save for defence. Use against small, tough and armoured elite units to maximise damage. Also good against monsterous infantry and bigger.
Spear and shield - probably the least used but has potential. You would need to invest in a larger unit size to really make use of spears so I’ll assume 3x3. I don’t like a two man rank but 2x3 could also be used although you’re missing out on free rank bonus. Spears allow Bull Centaurs to fight in an extra supporting rank and can also use their shields in combat. This makes the unit have massive staying power with many attacks as well. The downside is that you are paying a lot for this unit compared to the others.
With a unit of six in 3x3 formation(full command)you’re getting 19 str4 attacks. 2+ save for defence. Use against a tough enemy that you need to grind down over a couple of turns and expect to receive casualties from.
Spear and shield horde - probably will never be used but I love the idea! This will likely use all your special allowance but a unit of 24 in a 6x4 formation will be a powerful sight on the board(does anyone have 24 bull centaur?!) this unit will not be budging with +4 static combat res and 49 str4 attacks +stomps! Use against anything as surely nothing could stop this death star! (template weapons and magic aside :/)
I hope this has been a helpful read for you. Please feel free to correct me for any mistakes I’ve made and add your suggestions. I will try to add to this post when I think of more tactics such as magi banners, different frontages and combining charges.
All sounds pretty good to me, but I’m confused as to what makes you say they use the weapons as though infantry - more just me being too lazy to find my rulebook and double check, but I think I looked and the only thing I found implied they used them as cavalry (although it may just be they get no parry save) - in which case, spears give you +1S on the charge (very useful to them) instead of +1 rank of supporting attacks.
Bear in mind, this is just my assumptions based on quick checks, but if you can quote specific parts to say they use them a infantry, please do
Im currently building myself 10 bull centaurs for use in 2 units of 5, one with shields and additional handweapons and one with shields and great weapons. Will hopefully get some pics up of them when they’re all built.
All sounds pretty good to me, but I'm confused as to what makes you say they use the weapons as though infantry - more just me being too lazy to find my rulebook and double check, but I think I looked and the only thing I found implied they used them as cavalry (although it may just be they get no parry save) - in which case, spears give you +1S on the charge (very useful to them) instead of +1 rank of supporting attacks.
Bear in mind, this is just my assumptions based on quick checks, but if you can quote specific parts to say they use them a infantry, please do :P
Hashut's Blessing
Well I checked through the book before posting as I wasn't sure. These are the points from the rulebook I picked up:
-Bull centaurs are monstorous beasts in the Tamurkhan list. -Cavalry are "roughly man-sized riders mounted on war beasts" -Spear (Mounted) rule is only used for something riding on something else so Spear (foot) is used for anything else. -Two hand weapons (models on foot only) is a choice for Bull Centaurs
So from that Bull centaurs use infantry rules for weapons. The relevant weapons being Hand weapon & Shield for Parry, Spear for rank bonus and Two hand weapons.
I do hope thats right as I like to use them with HW Shield for 2+ 6++ save!
Im currently building myself 10 bull centaurs for use in 2 units of 5, one with shields and additional handweapons and one with shields and great weapons. Will hopefully get some pics up of them when they're all built.
hobomcg
A unit of ten! Good man, that's an expensive unit! What size army do you use it in? and how do you find the wide frontage? I think it could reduce manuverability for flank charges a little but have not tested it. I'd be interested to see how useful the shields are also as you're paying the cost of more than another Bull for them just for +1 save out of combat only.
Yep, quite right - it specifies that cavalry are mounted on war beasts, but these are monstrous beasts and the monstrous cavaly makes no mention of monstrous beasts.
However, reading monstrous beasts, it basically states that some characters can ride on them - to me, this is saying that they are a mount (I.E. on foot). As for the Spear entries, it states Foot and Mounted and since we know that BCs aren’t mounted, it flat-out means that sears give +1 rank of attacks. Not the way I want it played (especially since they’r meant for charging, lol), but the way it is at the moment. Will e-mail Forgeworld asking them about this, as it feels like it’s an oversight (but may very well not be).
As a result, I see no reason to take spears - take great weapons for cracking things, additional hand weapons for large units and shields for keeping them alive. Additional hand weapons trump the spears because of points cost: 50pts/model for AHW, 55pts/model for S&Sh, but the S&Sh needs a whole extra rank (but provides and extra two attacks per file instead of one from the AHW) and allows you to improve your armour (although you still have no parry).
The real question (at least for me) is the unit size…
How many BC do you play?
Have you ever tried the Taur’Ruk?
I’m undecided on 4 or 6… Both with GW + Shield.
The Standard Bearer is a must: with the + 1 discipline standard or the “reroll the first failed test” standard… They have only LD 8 and with a -1 they will almost always flee!
The real question (at least for me) is the unit size..
How many BC do you play?
Have you ever tried the Taur'Ruk?
I'm undecided on 4 or 6.. Both with GW + Shield.
The Standard Bearer is a must: with the + 1 discipline standard or the "reroll the first failed test" standard.. They have only LD 8 and with a -1 they will almost always flee!
scrabb
Well at the moment I only have 3 so that's all I play! But It depends on my list. In an all comers list I'll probably keep it small maybe just 3 with full command and banner of discipline(as you point out very handy!). But I will most likely up that to 6 at some point with great weapons. I do plan on play testing a unit of 8 with spears and shields full command with a taur'uk in 3x3 formation. Would be devastating against the right target.
Yep, quite right - it specifies that cavalry are mounted on war beasts, but these are monstrous beasts and the monstrous cavaly makes no mention of monstrous beasts.
Hashut's Blessing
Sorry, just a tiny clarification: when something is riding a monstrous beast, it becomes monstrous cavalry - this is explicit in the monstrous beast rules.
This means that, by definition, monstrous beasts can't be "mounted" since, as discussed at the beginning of the 'Weapons' section on page 90 of the RFBRB, mounted is defined as "cavalry of all kinds and models riding monsters or chariots". Monstrous beasts fall into none of these categories.
I don't think it's supposed to work this way though - I would say it's an oversight, since you only get the bonus from spears on foot if you don't charge, and who's using their Bull Centaurs to hold the line? It goes against the whole spirit of the unit. Still, that's what the rules say. It needs addressing in an FAQ.
