[Archive] Lore of Hashut discussion �?" Warhammer 8th edition


Lore of Hashut discussion �?" Warhammer 8th edition.
Hi guys. I listen to many podcasts about Warhammer and one of my favourites is the Baddice podcast. You can all go and check it out. They have some amazing shows about the magic lores, but their Lore of Hashut review is restricted to the area of paying members. I thought I would give it a go, and then make a hastily inaccurate transcription about the general gist of the lore review, so that we can have a healthy discussion about our very own lore, that is often overlooked, when matched against the Lore of Death. The following will be extracts from podcast between the ETC players Ben Curry from Britain and the Australian Sam Moore. Both has seldom visited profiles here on the forum: Ben Curry and Sam Moore. Afterwards we can give our own hints about how we use the lore, on contest points made from Ben, Sam or Each other.

Ben Curry and Sam Moore - Lore of Hashut review from June 2012

Lore Attribute:
Magic Missiles and Direct Damage spells from this lore gives +D3 to cast against Flammable units.
This lore attribute is almost never used, due to a lack of Flammable units in the game, and lack of direct damage spells that actually targets units. Flames of Azgorh and Hellhammer does not target a specific unit, so we cannot use the +D3 to casting roll on these spells.

Signature �?" Breath of Hatred:
Range 12�?�, Augment, Remains in play, Unit has Hatred, cast on 6. Boost: 12�?� bobble of Hatred, cast on 15.
Quite a good spell for a combat army. Use it early in the game on the Destroyer or a great weapon unit of Infernal Guards. Your opponent will be inclined to let it through (as it poses no imminent thread) and is then forced to use dice to dispel it later on, or take the casualties in close combat. So it is often used to weaken the enemy�?Ts magic offensive in the early stages of the game. The big bubble is pretty wicked, but remember the  caster will act as beacon from the spell, so it won�?Tt be relevant which units was in range at the casting time, but rather which unit is in range once they get to close combat.

1 �?" Burning Wrath:
Range 8�?�, Magic missile, D6 S6 Flaming, cast on 6. Boosted: 2D6, cast on 12.
The incredible short range makes this a tool for the monster riding lord, but not really anything else. 2D6 S6 Flaming Magic Missile is not that impressive, but it�?Ts decent against A-bombs, Crypt Horrors and other regenerating monsters. These monsters will often be hurled towards you and fast approching, so the 8�?� range is achievable without putting your Lord at too much risk. It is very situational, and will often be switched for the Signature spell.

2 �?" Dark Subjugation:
Range 24�?�, Hex, Leadership test at -3 or permanently lose 1Ld., cast on 8.
Taken in isolation, it is not that powerful, unless you know you can get it through 1-2 times on the enemy General through turn 1-4. It shines in the combo with the Hellcannon, making people flee easier, and perhaps a secondary wizard on the Lore of Death with Doom and Darkness.

3 �?" Curse of Hashut:
Range 18�?�, Direct Damage, target single model (can be in a unit), 2D6-Toughness hits, which wounds on 4+ with no armour save allowed. Cast on 10.
Snipe spell akin to the character snipes from Lore of Death. It is okay. A decent snipe. Good against T4 characters. The range is not that short compared to Lore of Death, but this lore is generally best utilized on and aggressive general, which is a little counterintuitive for some of the chaos dwarf players.

4 �?" Ashstorm:
Range 24, Hex, affects target unit until start of casters next magic phase, -1 to hit in cc, -2 to hit with shooting, can�?Tt march, fly or charge, takes dangerous terrain test if moving, Wizards cannot cast spells unless on themselves, and the unit is Flammable. Cast on 12.
This is THE spell in the list. Probably one of the best spells in the game, period. ETC nearly banned this lore, solely based on Ashstorm. Hit the Gutstar with this if they don�?Tt have Rune maw BSB. Obviously, stacks well with Magma cannon and other flaming shooting, as well as The Black Hammer that auto kills wounded Flammable.
Most importantly: It shots down the wizard? The wizard can move out of the unit and cast spells, but then the unit will take the dangerous terrain test as a result + it forces the wizard from his bunker unit. It is a very very handy spell, that pulls out dispel scrolls at an early stage of the game. It serves all purposes. It ties up shooting units as well as combat units.

5 �?" Hellhammer:
Range 3D6 �?o in a straight line like a cannonball, direct damage, Each model takes a S6 hit with Multiple Wounds (D3), if the unit suffers a wound, take a panic test. Cast on 13. Boost: Double the range, cast on 18.
A little bit lacklustre. Trade it for other signature if possible. 3D6 is a short range. Many chances to fail. But it does come into its own right if you use the monster ridding lord with the Daemon Flask (100 points) that wreck warmachines. Often, a warmachine or two survives, so you can use the Hellhammer to take the last wound from the surviving warmachine.
Daemon Flask sub discussion: Would you ever use it? An unprotected lord will die easily? Well, he is 3+ armour save already, and removing all the enemy warmachines will often save him more than a ward save. It�?Ts activated at the start of your movement phase, so you�?Tll have to survive a round of shooting (probably behind a building).  Situational, but decent for a fun game against a warmachine bunker.

6 �?" Flames of Azgorh:
Unlimited range. Direct damage. Small round template, scatter D6, models touched = S6 hit with Multiple Wound (D6). Model directly under the hole takes a Toughness test at -2 or is slain outright without any saves. Cast on 18. Boosted: Large template, cast on 25.
This is the secondary spell in the lore, after Ashstorm. Since you will 6-dice this anyway, you should seriously consider going for the big template. This is like a strength 6 mortar shot, that does not scatter much. It�?Ts flaming, which can be both a blessing and a curse. The best part of the spell is that it has multiple uses. Yeah you can throw it on any regiment and erase them: �?oTempleguards? They are GONE!�?� but you can also use the secondary part of it, and try to hit the centre on big monster or character. You will have around a 50/50% chance to kill anything in the game with the �?o-2 Toughness test or be slain outright�?� part of the spell. Fx a Great Unclean One with 10 wounds.

What Lores would best compliment the Lore of Hashut

Death Magic
Death Magic is overall an insane lore! The synergies it greates with Lore of Hashut and the Chaos Dwarfs are quite decent.
Soulblight (-1T) comboes well with Flames of Azgorh and Curse of Hashut.
Doom and Darkness (-3Ld) comboes with Hellcanon and Dark Subjugation
A level 2 Daemonsmith on Death is a go-to choice. Good synergies, and a good lore overall.

Enchanted Blades, Searing Doom and Glittering Robes are useful in their own right, but does not hold many synergies with the Lore of Hashut. Hobgoblins with light armour, shields and Glittering Robes can hold Crypt Horrors for many, many rounds. An Infernal Guards with both Enchanted Blades and Flaming Sword will go crazy on any opponent.

All around decent lore.
Flaming Swords on warmachines is pretty hefty. The Deathshriekers Large template with +1 to wound is devastating against low armored troops.
Fireball is always solid, and while the Chaos Dwarf do have some shooting, it is mostly from warmachines. Fireball will come in handy against skirmishers and chaff.
If you can combo Ashstorm + Big Fireball = Super Mega Fireball. It is practically a Genkidama at this point.
Cascading Flame Cloak on the Taurus riding lord is nice as well.

Support Casters
As Daemonsmiths are also engineers, they serve many purposes. Always bring a lvl 2 on death. With Leadership 9, the Spirit Leach is mean. The range is less of a problem, as your warmachines forces the enemy to come to you. Doom and Darkness + Hellcanon is a game winner.
Another lvl 2 is feasible, it can select whichever you feel you need.
Two Level 4? Viable?
Not enough power dice for the steep price of the Sorcerer Prophets. Hashut spells take many dice.

This is the end of the podcast, but let us keep it going.


My thoughts:

Lore of Shadows via the Lammasu
Ben and Sam forgot the Lammasu�?Ts access to Lore of Shadow. If we take the weak Lammasu (compared to the Taurus) we can gain access to a lvl 2 Wizard on the Lore of Shadows. Lore of Shadow has great synergy with almost everything, but paying up to 700 points for this model means, he will HAVE to do insane things to win the game.
With The Withering (-3T) on and enemy monster or unit, Flames of Azgorhs and Curse of Hashut becomes stronger. As do fx the Deathshriekers big template, but you can�?Tt be sure to roll it, and it�?Ts not good enough. Instead I would ALWAYS recommend the Shadow Lammasu to combo with the lore of Death Sorc-Prophet, as Shadows signature spell can give a unit (-D3 initiative) before the Prophet throws a purple sun. Even elves, skaven and warriors of chaos will fear that combo from a flying model.

Which armies will Lore of Hashut work well against?
Armies with a deathstar (Ashstorm), big units of monstrous units like trolls and ogres (Flames of Azgorh) or perhaps units with flammable monsters, like a elves army with many treekins and treemen. I imagine it is pretty good against Ogre Kingdom fx.

Which armies will Lore of Hashut be bad against?
Armies, which does not take panic, test from all the damage we make (RIP Hellhammer and Dark Subjugation) such as the undead and the daemons. Armies which primary force comes from single wounds models and not monstrous troops (So that the multiple wounds from Flames of Azgorh, Hellhammer and our Magmacannons does not do anything). If the opponent is not relying too much on his magic phase, we cannot even shut him down with Ashstorm. I imagine the lore be horrendous against an infantry heavy army of Daemons of Chaos fx.
Which models can you bring, that synergizes well with the Lore of Hashut?
An aggressive army that gets in range, adds pressure and bring aid to your Bale Taurus riding Prophet seems like a good idea. Bring a horde of great weapon wielding Infernal Guards with Banner of Swiftness and keep breath of hatred on them at all times, so their S6 comes into effect. Bring Bull Centaurs and K�?Tdaiis, and then probable a unit or two of Hobgoblins with bows, which try to remove the enemy chaff.

Lore of Hashut during The End Times
With 1000 points model (or close to) like Malekith, Glottkin and Nagash, our Ashstorm is even more insane, as a successful cast will cripple half his army and probably the bulk of their magic. On the same note: Flames of Azgorhs Toughness test at -2 is pretty mean against 100x150 mm bases worth of a 1000 points.

Lore of Hashut with the Magic of the End Times scenario rule
MotET means, that you will get more easy stuff through, but won�?Tt get as much high casting value through. Lore of Hashut suffers under this, and I would recommend Metal or Fire so that so can spam Enchanted Blades, Flaming Sword, Fireball and Searing Doom.

Does anyone have anything to add? How do you use the Lore of Hashut? Any war stories where it shined or failed?


Nice reminders of things we should know. Just have to remember it is here.


Sorry I forgot to answer in due time Abecedar!

Yeah this is no new information, just an overview of what the lore can and should do.

I think i was a year or two too late for this thread, as 8th edition players has mostly migrated to 9th age and KoW. I do hope to see some analytics and perspectives on these systems in time, even though I don’t play the games. :slight_smile:


Thats Okay.  Its not like I get to game now-a-days but analysies(?) of stuff is always interesting


Yeah that’s somewhat how I use the different podcasts. To enjoy the hobby in multiple ways while I wait for new days to play (with months in between). Some good analysis, a cool story, a podcast or an armyblog keeps things going :slight_smile: