Willmark:
The intresting thing is GW is acting like people don’t communicate world wide, as if they think they can do a DVD region type of restriction. This rarely if ever works and people will find ways around this.
Grimstonefire:
What I think you will see are companies selling at full UK/US/Europe retail prices to australia.
It would still be a significant saving.
The owner of Wayland could start a second business just for this. He’d pay more for the stock of course, but he could use joint advertising on both sites and could probably find other economies of scale savings.
wallacer:
From the GW Facebook page:
Our CEO Mark Wells has written a letter in response to people who have contacted him to express their concerns over our decision to restrict European trade accounts from selling outside the EU. We asked him nicely if we could also post it here for all of you who have been letting us know how you feel on Facebook and so here you have his personal reply.
Sincerely,
The Web Team
Dear Hobbyists,
Thanks for contacting Games Workshop about the change in our trading terms for European accounts. I know this has frustrated you and for that I am truly sorry. As a long standing customer, you deserve to know why we made this decision.
As you know, we introduce people to the Games Workshop hobby of collecting, painting and gaming with Citadel miniatures through our Hobby Centres and local independent trade accounts. Games Workshop Hobby Centres run introductory games and painting sessions, beginner lessons, hobby activities and events. We provide all these services free of charge. We only recover this investment if customers then buy products from us.
Where we don’t have a Games Workshop Hobby Centre, we support local independent trade accounts. These businesses provide a convenient place for customers to buy our products close to where they live. We support these businesses with local customer service teams and warehouses to ensure customers have immediate access to our best selling products and new releases. Many customers discover the hobby this way.
In addition we invest millions of pounds every year in our design studio and factory to ensure that each month we release more new products. This makes the Games Workshop Hobby more exciting for existing customers, helping them stay in the hobby longer. We can only afford to do this because of the volume of customers we have recruited and developed through our local Hobby Centres and trade accounts.
It is for this reason that we have changed our European Trade terms. Over recent years, a number of currencies have moved a long way from their historical relative values, and this has opened the door for some traders to try to take advantage of these currency movements and offer deep discounts to overseas hobbyists. This has been the case with European internet traders selling to some of our customers overseas.
While this may seem great in the short term, the simple fact is that European internet traders will not invest any money in growing the hobby in your country. Their model is to minimise their costs and free-ride on the investment of Games Workshop and local independent shops in creating a customer base.
The inevitable consequence if this was allowed to continue is that Games Workshop would not be able to operate Hobby Centres, nor to support local trade accounts. And if this happened in more territories outside Europe, the loss of volume would leave Games Workshop no choice but to scale back our investment in new product development, further eroding our customer base. Not something that we or our customers would want us to do.
That is why we took the decision to take legitimate action to restrict European trade accounts from selling the goods they purchase from Games Workshop outside Europe.
While I understand that you may still be unhappy with our decision, it was taken to ensure we can continue to support the Games Workshop hobby communities around the world through our Games Workshop Hobby Centres and local trade accounts. And to ensure we continue to invest in developing the best possible new product releases every month. I hope therefore that over time you will see the benefits of this decision for you and your hobby.
Yours sincerely,
Mark Wells
Chief Executive
18 May 2011
Pyro Stick:
Wayland Games response:
Hi Everyone,
Before we start, if you’d allow me to present a little background about Wayland before we get into the meat of the issue I’d be grateful.
We laid out our little web store back in August 2008, our beginnings were humble, with my brother and I packing orders in a spare room. It wasn’t ideal but it was what we had to start with and we grew and grew through the continued business of our loyal customers through four warehouses to our current location. In thirty three months we have gone from a spare room in Essex, UK with my brother and I packing boxes to a global operation with fourteen full time staff which is now positioned as one of the largest if not the largest independent hobby retailer in the world. We run our business today as we always have done, in a professional and ethical manner both within the letter and the spirit of the law. Almost all suppliers like us, customers enjoy our openness and service-oriented outlook and whilst we’re realistic enough to know we’re not by any means perfect we will always strive to improve to ensure our central tenet of great prices and better service.
Managing such growth has been far from simple; we have experienced growing pains like any business in any sector that has exploded in market share terms. Our growing pains have also been more painful as we continually seek to adjust to a shifting commercial landscape from our dominant supplier, Games Workshop. Like many of you, I believe that Games Workshop produce a fantastic product which gives endless joy to countless people. I am proud to be associated with them. Unsurprisingly, therefore, I read with real concern the statement by the CEO Mark Wells over the new trade terms which effectively prevents us selling Games Workshop supplied products outside Europe. Mark�?Ts statement can be found at: Redirecting...
Mark seems to be clearly of the view that on-line retailers (and we are not purely that, of course given our bricks and mortar presence) �?ofree ride�?� on the back of Games Workshop�?Ts bricks and mortar outlets. We have sought over the years, and I thought with some success and recognition, to demonstrate to Games Workshop the value that we provide not just in terms of sales but also in terms of pre and after sales service (not to mention our activities at trade fairs), which is clearly equivalent to the service that is provided on the �?oground�?� by bricks and mortar outlets. Quite aside from the legality of Games Workshop�?Ts actions, we are confused by the commercial attitude of Games Workshop which hampers our ability to sell to hobbyists to the clear disadvantage of both Games Workshop (albeit maybe not their retail arm) and the hobbyists themselves.
I will not air anyone�?Ts dirty laundry in public. Therefore, I am writing to Games Workshop separately (its board, lawyers and their principal shareholders) to share my concerns in greater depth. I hope that commercial common sense will prevail and that we can continue to work with Games Workshop to expand their market and bring a great product to as many people as possible at the best price possible. After all, Games Workshop not only has a clear responsibility to the market but also a clear responsibility to its shareholders (which, after all, could be you and me!).
In the meantime, we believe after the announced terms are implemented we shall be able to continue to offer all of our loyal customers the same product range that we offer today. There may be a small lead time to implement but we’ve been given a rather short period to react. We will comply fully and completely with the new terms and conditions of sale imposed upon us and will not contravene them in any capacity whatsoever (albeit we would not wish that to be seen as acceptance of their legality), all we seek to achieve is that customers both old and new are able to benefit from our view of the market wherever they are located. We all love our hobby.
Over the next few weeks we’ll be providing updates as to how the process of implementing these changes is coming along, the chances are we’ll use Facebook to disseminate this information as it is a great platform for customers to interact with us and each other.
We look forward to continue to serve you and we always will.
Keep on Wargaming.
Richard.
Wayland Games
Wayland Games
Necrotique:
So… their logic is "People in Australia (for example) used to have to pay $180 after conversion for a battalion, but now that they can get one for $150 due to the exchange rate piking we have to make them pay the full $150 rather than get it for say $90 from someone else.
I love it how they try to make it sound like it’s helping people join the hobby. Here (in Western Australia at least) the hobby centres are honestly just tiny little shops with two tables and a counter, with products along the walls. It’s always too crowded to look around properly, and when you do you’re met by people who (due to serving the main customer which is, here at least, 10 year old kids getting their dad to paint) acts condescendingly and tries to make you buy the latest product. It’s just not a pleasant shopping experience at all.
Honestly though, I collect WOC and was telling the store owner that I convert Chaos Dwarfs for a large contingent of my army, and his suggestion is “Maybe you could buy Vampire Counts as well! Have a look at this great battalion! Maybe you should grab some Blood Knights, they look good too!”
Honestly, I personally buy online because I don’t want to be surrounded by spoilt pre-teens. I either buy from a second-hand dealer or online, and I only do so because GW’s customer relations skills suck.
:cheers
Thorne:
I still find it ironic that by selling games workshop products via the medium of the Internet and still filling games workshops pockets at the same time that games workshop would not wish for the sales to continue from where ever the cash flowed in from, I know from personal experience dealing with GW representatives that they are instructed that the sale of items underneath their recommended retail price is oddly seen as devaluing their products but in real terms as long as the products sell in volume not seen at their stores or mail order who in marketing should really care. As a former sales rep I find it most annoying and foolish not to mention short sighted of GW not to mention the chief executive sales are still sales it matters not who or how those sales are made.
Grimstonefire:
Having done some number crunching of all this I have come to the opinion that Australian customers paying full australian retail prices is fair comparable to UK prices.
I worked it out using a dwarf warriors box as a % of median disposable incomes.
So this includes cost of living, tax etc.
They have the highest disposable income of all the countries GW sell to (counting EU as a whole, I didn’t look at individual countries), which explains why they are hit hardest by not being able to ship from a cheaper country.
New Zealand is a different matter. They would need their prices dropped by around 45% to be comparable.
zobo1942:
Ummm… so just to be clear… You’re saying that miniatures should be priced based on their relation to a customer’s income?
Which means that if you’re more financially successful, you should pay more for them? If you’re not doing so well financially, you should pay less? What do you suggest - bringing in your taxes to show the worker at the counter to see what price/discount bracket you fall into?
I’m not trying to be nasty, but I don’t think that kind of comparison is applicable at all.
Grimstonefire:
No, I’m saying that people are poor or rich only relative to their national average income. A poor person in the UK taking their current salary to Vietnam for instance would be well off.
A person on the same income (converted into £) would be better off proportionally in the UK because the average salary in australia is considerably higher. Their retail prices reflect that.
That is what those statistics show, that if you look at the cost of that one thing in relation to the national median disposable income, Australians are now paying just as much proportionally as we do in the UK (more or less). Which seems fair to me.
It’s hard for them, they have to catch up to the real price all in one go rather than phased in.
zobo1942:
“In Australia, most people earn more money than they do in the UK. Therefore, this product will cost proportionally more in Australia, based on a median national income. Because they’ve got the money, they should be able to afford it.”
I would think that 'Product A costs ‘X’. Getting this product to market in
saearath:
@ Grim: That is a very interesting way to look at it and I recognise where you are coming from. I would almost buy into a sales pitch like that.
What makes the whole thing hard to swallow personally, is that in years gone by when the Oz dollar sat closer to 2/3rds its current worth GW set the prices based on the fact that we had to pay more because our money was not worth as much as the UK/US. Now if they were to increase the prices elsewhere in the world to match more current finacial trends, I might go back to believing that they were trying bleed everyone’s pockets dry equally .
Necrotique:
@ Grim: That is a very interesting way to look at it and I recognise where you are coming from. I would almost buy into a sales pitch like that.That's my thoughts on it. Plus our house market makes them nigh unaffordable, with most of the young Australians either living in a family home or renting. Money in = Money out, and getting more AUD$ when it's high value and converted will lend them to being able to spend more of it producing more models.
What makes the whole thing hard to swallow personally, is that in years gone by when the Oz dollar sat closer to 2/3rds its current worth GW set the prices based on the fact that we had to pay more because our money was not worth as much as the UK/US. Now if they were to increase the prices elsewhere in the world to match more current finacial trends, I might go back to believing that they were trying bleed everyone's pockets dry equally .
saearath
I think that averages are just that; averages. I'd like to see their reasoning after looking at the type of people that buy GW products first and then taking their disposable income into account.
:cheers
wallacer:
The problem is that people in Australasia got a better deal from buying something halfway round the world than they did from their local store.
This wouldn’t be a problem if local prices were more sensible. The are sold for amounts that simply seem to have no basis in the relative strengths of the 2 currencies.
Necrotique:
@ Wallacer - agreed. Also, the prices are silly (I’ve seen a 5x witch elf box self for more than the command one, which 5x executioner command models costs more than standard ones. This is not the case on the site where command always costs more than the rank-and-file)
:cheers
wallacer:
Yep, it is incredibly frustrating.
I recently bought a Necrosphinx for my TK army from Maelstrom.
It cost NZ$52 (with free shipping).
GW sell it in the UK for £31.00 (not including shipping), which at the current exchange rate works out to NZ$63.60
If I had bought it from GWNZ it would have cost NZ$98 (not including shipping).
And that’s why people in Australiasia are angry at GW. The example above gives you some idea what it’s like trying to buy a whole army over here at GW retail prices.
The only upside is that local GW prices are so high that buying a Warhammer Forge CD army actually doesn’t seem that bad anymore.
At least when I buy from WF it is a straight transaction using the actual exchange rate.
nitroglysarine:
The problem is that people in Australasia got a better deal from buying something halfway round the world than they did from their local store.I guess GW could argue that if people don't support their local stores then they will close. So it is up to them if they want to compete with themselves across the world.
This wouldn't be a problem if local prices were more sensible. The are sold for amounts that simply seem to have no basis in the relative strengths of the 2 currencies.
wallacer
It sucks, but it just makes it harder to do the same thing, people in the EU will buy for other people (friends/family) and ship it to them if it works out cheaper. This will also mean eBay will soon be flooded with traders selling to anyone. I doubt GW will bother checking each and every trader on eBay to see if they are selling personally or for profit. (butI guess the vat number makes that easy to check :| )
wallacer:
I don’t have a problem with GW supporting local stores. I just wish they’d do it by factoring in the actual exchange rate so local stores can sell stuff at a more realistic price.
nitroglysarine:
I don't have a problem with GW supporting local stores. I just wish they'd do it by factoring in the actual exchange rate so local stores can sell stuff at a more realistic price.AGREED!
wallacer
saearath:
I don't have a problem with GW supporting local stores. I just wish they'd do it by factoring in the actual exchange rate so local stores can sell stuff at a more realistic price.Here's a scary thought for everyone!!
wallacer
GW ae unlikely to drop the price in Oz, in fact the recent events point that they are trying everything in their power to prevent it. If indeed the were to balance the prices world wide 10 ork boys, will set those in th UK back approx 32 pounds at the current exchange rate. lets hope for all our sakes that does not happen.
Instead I have heard of a few postal companies in the UK that work exactly as a go between for this reason. If i can locate who and how much I'll post it on up.
wallacer:
Cool.
Luckily most of my gaming budget this year is going to be taken up with Warhammer Forge purchases so having to buy locally won’t hit me until next year. That doesn’t help anyone else of course…