Groznit Goregut:
OK…I just read the full wiki and the tactics offered didn’t differ much from the basic defensive style I expected to find.
two_heads_talking:
Chaos Dwarfs were created in 4th edition where the concept behind army books was "let's throw in whatever random @#$* we think would be cool!" and trying to cover every concievable base rather than the newer concept of "here's how this army should fight, here are units that support that method".Really? Which developer are you quoting? Truely, you are speaking out the side of your mouth with nothing but your own opinion right?
Hobgoblyn
Having playtested many of the 4th edition armies, I can cleary say that you are completely off-base with your above comment.
Alan the evil:
@groznit
i can answer about what i know (or at least how we play in italy)…
as soon as it possible i gonna post documents about what i’m saying (i’m must to go to my club).
core unit : not less than 3… and obviously only chaos dwarves…
musician: it really costs 10.
O&G: we can have only infantry of goblins (no dark), orks,and one unit of black orks.
BC: I don’t care what they say about… THEY ROCK!!
Groznit Goregut:
Thanks Alan! I figure that the wiki is outdated or something. I would LOVE to only have 2 core dwarf units.<br>
How many CD players are from Italy? It seems you are the 2nd or 3rd that I’ve seen!
Yeah, Bull Centaurs do seem to rock! I haven’t played with them yet, though. They have a better leadership than boar boyz. No Animosity. They are faster. If they use hw+shield, they have the same 3+ AS. No Animosity. They can use great weapons to get S6! They are cheaper than boar boyz. Did I mention no Animosity?
So, it seems that no one has really tried this type of a list before? Well, Baggronor did say he ran a very similar list. I will have to PM him on his thoughts. Xander said it looked like a fun list. I can’t believe that no one else has tried it?
tetnis:
I think it sounds like a fun list, I just think lots of people are reluctant to give up our staples (blunderbuss lines, earthshakers, etc.) This could definitely shake things up, and id love to hear from someone with experience running it.
Fallen246:
Thanks Alan! I figure that the wiki is outdated or something. I would LOVE to only have 2 core dwarf units.\In a 1,000 point list you only need 2.
Groznit Goregut
In a 2,000 point list you need 3, 3,000 point list you need 4 and so forth.
(Also, as a note, a 2500 point force only needs 3 chaos dwarf units still, as it isn't yet a 3,000pt force.)
Alan the evil:
Fallen says
In a 1,000 point list you only need 2.
In a 2,000 point list you need 3, 3,000 point list you need 4 and so forth.
Well…
I was not clear: when i talk about my army I always talk about army between 1999 and 2999 pt… FIGW plays 2250 pt lists
Thanx Fallen for point it.
@groznit
how many CD italian players??
Once a time i met a guy who gave me a great taurus: he was the only one i never met who played CD. Now he’s married and he’s off.
But I read in some results someone plays CD and i hope a day to meet them.
matt:
Does the banner of slavery worth it when you are using a gunline army? Or is it still to expensive?
and about Black Orcs. Do you guys use them? I mean I heard a lot of orc players saying they are expensive (OMG well I play elves I got used to it:D) so they don’t really use them. How is it with cd?
Alan the evil:
banner of slavery is too much expensive…
it works only with slaves…which kind of panic test do you afraid for your slaves??
black orks are powerfull, but too much expensive
13 pt per model - nake
14 pt with shields
20 pt the champion
a unit of 20 with command group costs more than 300 points
i put them out of my list and i found place for 15 BB, 2 bolt thrower and 2 unit of 20 hobbos…
what do you think about it??
I even try to put a little 10 unit of black orks with champion like guard of my core unit…
but for 160 pt i still prefear 15 BB because they works one turn before with infantry
all in my humble opinion:hat off
Swissdictator:
I agree with Alan, Black Orcs are a little too expensive for my tastes. I find Orcs or even Orc Big Uns with shields to be a much better option for the points.
Maul:
If I take them, I go with a unit of 13 with the Bullcentaur standard bearer. This is both a hammer and an anvil unit. It is best used as the hammer though. All those choppa attacks is pretty sick at str 5 and no animosity to shaft you. I think they are a little expensive for what they do, but we lack those hammer units and often have extra special choices so I view them as a good investment in limited numbers. I like the models anyway.
Maul:
For me, it all depends on the opponent. If I feel that my infantry can win out against theirs I advance the whole line forward. I usually feel confident about my infantry, but have things like chariots, then I usually advance a bit, but largely hang back in order to buy time for the artillery to do it’s work. I rarely castle up in corner, but do when I am very grossly outnumbered or where there is a lot of good fast moving troops bearing down at me. I think you have to build a good general list and just be flexible with it.
Ancient History:
OK...I just read the full wiki and the tactics offered didn't differ much from the basic defensive style I expected to find.Yeah, I think its time to update and expand the tactics page a little. The individual vs. army pages are a bit better.
Groznit Goregut
Ubertechie:
Black Orcs are great as a hammer unit - I use 6 of them they are fantastic in support of any main dwarf unit and at only 72 points for 12 ws4 strength 5 or 6 ws 4 strength 6 attacks they are good value and can easily swing a combat - plus no animosity makes them nice and reliable and every single model can fight.
Big units get too expensive compared to dwarf warriors and given that everyone knows that black orcs are dangerous they get targetted a lot - whereas most people ignore a small unit.
Alan the evil:
that’s what I promise to groznit:
i can answer about what i know (or at least how we play in italy)…I’m very sorry but this link it’s only in italian
as soon as it possible i gonna post documents about what i’m saying
http://www.forumgwtilea.it/fiw/v2/lgir/LGIR3.0.pdf
musician: it really costs 10nani del caos: page 24 - point 1
O&G: we can have only infantry of goblins (no dark), orks,and one unit of black orksnani del caos: page 24 - point 6
more exactly we can have goblins, orks, archers, big uns like in the O&G book , 0-1 black orks.
Groznit Goregut:
I posted an army list in the Army List forum. It’s not your standard CD list.
I’m not sure when I will get a chance to try it out as I don’t have CD yet. I do have a death rocket, 10 hobgoblin wolf riders, and a Great Taurus lord at the moment. I figure I will borrow heavily from tjub’s work to create an army.
Giftzwerg:
Thanks for the feedback so far. It still looks like most CD armies sit back and wait for you to come to them. Is that the gist of it?I occasionally field a "fast attack" army, one version uses:
Groznit Goregut
Lord on Great Taurus
Scroll caddy
Chaos Dwarf Hero, General,
Chaos Dwarf Warriors
2 units Blunderbusseers x 15: ,
3 minimal units of naked Hobgoblins
Hobgoblins x 20
2 units Hobgoblin Wolfriders Light Armour Shields Musician,
Orcs with Shields x 21: Musician, Standard, Boss,
Boltthrower x 6
Bull Centaurs + Heavy Armour, x 6: Standard with War Banner,
Bull Centaurs Heavy Armour1 x 6: Standard
Blunderbussers fit in well, since they can move and shoot, which makes up for the slowness. Not really sure about the warriors, great anvil unit, but often never make combat
Groznit Goregut:
Hey Giftzwerg,
How did the units of bull centaurs work? People always say that units of 5 are small and vulnerable to missile fire and magic. I was thinking of running an army list with two units of 10 bull centaurs. I’m curious how your units of 6 handled. How often do they get shot to pieces or not make it to charge the enemy lines?
Alan the evil:
A unit of 5 BC has got 10 attacks S6 against a front of 5 models infantry.
This means I hit them on 3+ and wound on 2+ if they have WS3 or less and 4+ / 2+ vs WS4+. I’m gonna inflict an average damage of 5/6 casualties in the 1st case and 4 in the 2nd… IF i didn’t suffer any casualty during my approch movement.
An infantry usually has got 3 ranks, number, standard: if we don’t work over the average we hardly win the combat… even with standard and war banner: thay can help just to supprot our casualties during approch movement…5 or 6 BC in this way are not so different.
I prefer to manage this minimum units, without standard, just to try to reach a flank of the board or to help other units menacing or even charging flanks of enemy units.
It’s different if we want to use BC for hard close combat: we need 10 models to try to have even rank and number as well as the guarantee to bring 10 attacks to the enemy. In this way standard and music are good to help close combat result.
Everything in my humble opinion
EDIT: shields on BC are essentials
Giftzwerg:
Hey Giftzwerg,they went well in the last 2 games, but my opponent had little magic and was obsessed with shooting at the Orc unit!?!:hat off
How did the units of bull centaurs work? People always say that units of 5 are small and vulnerable to missile fire and magic. I was thinking of running an army list with two units of 10 bull centaurs. I'm curious how your units of 6 handled. How often do they get shot to pieces or not make it to charge the enemy lines?
Groznit Goregut
This isn't a army I would normally field against an experienced player. People who know what they are doing shoot/magic them to bits. If your opponent doesnt have a hill for his shooters though, the wolfrider screen is invaluable. The wolfriders that survive the shooting can charge a war machine/detachment whatever on T2, leaving the BC's to charge something significant, or the wolfriders manoeuvre to threaten a flank while the BCs threaten a frontal charge.. The BC's can "usually" take out a block of average infantry, or at Ld9 hang in and wait for help.
Units of 10 are much more survivable, but hard to do pointswise at 2k if you have a lord on a Great Taurus, and the Great Taurus can at least be relied on to draw a lot of fire away from them. A unit of 11 (6 in the front rank) with warbanner kicks arse. You will get all 6 in contact with a 5 wide infantry block of even 20mm base models, so 12, or 13 with champion, S6 attacks, a rank, and warbanner.
I often field a minimal unit of 5 with no command in a defensive army, because people will cry cheese if you field 2 earthshakers, so you have a spare rare slot, and at 105 points, they are almost a throwaway unit. If you are playing a "come and get me" army, you can keep them out of range and use them for a countercharge unit. i.e. whittle down the enemy's infantry with firepower then charge the bullcentaurs in.
*disclaimer* I might suck at painting, but I can at least claim to be mediocre at strategy and tactics!:cheers