Alrighty- if someone can give me a rules clarification in the Tamurkhan book: What are the exact rules for including a Chaos Dwarf force with a Warriors of Chaos army?
Here’s my thinking: rather than looking at the Legion of Azghor list as a limited list, why not look at it with the Warriors of Chaos Army book (with some renaming) and think of it as actually quite a large list?
So far, the only restrictions I’ve seen are
1. You must include a daemonsmith to include CD units 2. Infernal Guard move to Special 3. Iron Daemon moves to Rare
If those are the only restrictions, then the sky is the limit! Let’s look at this one section at a time:
[/b] Warhounds = Wolfpacks Marauders = Hobgoblins or Hobgoblins = Hobgoblins; depending on which ruleset you prefer Marauder Horsemen = Hobgoblin Wolfriders Chaos Warriors = Chaos Dwarf Warriors (no shooting options)
[/b][/u] Chosen = Chaos Dwarf Immortals Trolls = Bull Centaurs (with stupidity ) Dragon Ogres = Bull Centaur Elites Ogre = Slave Ogres Death Shrieker Magma Cannon Infernal Guard K’daai Fireborn
[/b][/u] Chaos Warshrine = Hashut Warshrine (warshrines rock :cheers ) Giant Siege Giant Hellcannon Iron Daemon Dreadquake Mortar K’daai Destroyer
You can Count Throgg as a named Bull Centaur that makes normal Bull Centaurs (trolls) core
You can count Wulfrik as a named Hobgoblin that allows normal Hobgoblins (marauders) to come off of table edges.
normal hero/lord choices (though you would only be able to put CD specific BSB or Daemonsmiths in IG [special] units).
Again, this is if I’m thinking about the inclusion right, but if I am, we technically have quite a large/various list that can be adjusted to fit all kinds of situations.
Thoughts? Was anyone else thinking along the same lines?
Lots of interesting ideas. Can’t really make an informed comment as I don’t have the book yet but i’m sure i’ll give some version of the big Chaos list a crack.
yeah, I thought about that… my guess is in friendly games, most people wouldn’t care about it too much, however, I could always use movement trays that I’ve made for 25mm units and just stick my 20mm Chaos Dwarfs on there with a little empty space on either side…
I was wondering what to count Forsaken as… Black Orcs? Chaos Dwarf Berserkers? Count the Chaos Chariot as a Black Orc Chariot…?
I think I’d want to use the chariot stats for a ‘tenderiser’, as it’d make for a cool model. You could always make 25mm bases for your CDs to slot onto; it would be a chance to make some cool bases.
I don’t actually use Black Orcs in my CD armies, but if you do then I’m sure you could use them as Forsaken. I was looking for a way to use a unit I plan to convert from Avatars of War berserkers as I read your list, so that might be a way. For most, that’d probably fill the ‘berserker’ slot. I think both are viable ideas - i just don’t like Black Orcs in the army due to the rebellion fluff.
I'm not far along with it, but I'd like a chance to use it as something. It's going to be a pump-wagon at some points, but using it in a chaos army would be fun.
Ok I’m a little shaky on this section as I have concentrated my attention on the fluff and the LoA list mostly so far but as I understand things:
Sorc Prophs, Castellans and Daemonsmiths may be taken as part of your regular Lords/Heroes allowance, but you cannot take them solo there must be at least 1 non non character CD unit/war machine also annoyingly they may not be the armies general.
1 unit of infernals can be taken as a special choice for every sorc proph or daemonsmith in the army. All war machines are rare choices. The text reads: the following legion of azgorh units can be taken as part of a warriors of chaos army using the points listed. So I’m guessing everything not mentioned above isn’t selectable ruling out: Bull Centaurs Hobgoblins Bull Centaur Tauruks (hero Choice) Hobgoblin Khans and hobgoblin wolf raiders (hero Choice) Kdai destroyers and fireborn not sure on Infernal ironsworn as they arent specifically mentioned.
actually, it looks like (according to FW, unless it has changed in Tamurkhan) the Magma Cannon and Deathshrieker would still retain their special slot… So basically we would lose the K’daai units and the list would look like this:
Core
Warhounds = Wolfpacks
Marauders = Hobgoblins or
Hobgoblins = Hobgoblins; depending on which ruleset you prefer
Marauder Horsemen = Hobgoblin Wolfriders
Chaos Warriors = Chaos Dwarf Warriors (no shooting options)
Special
Chosen = Chaos Dwarf Immortals
Trolls = Bull Centaurs (with stupidity )
Dragon Ogres = Bull Centaur Elites
Ogre = Slave Ogres
Death Shrieker
Magma Cannon
Infernal Guard (1 per daemonsmith)
Rare
Chaos Warshrine = Hashut Warshrine
Giant
Siege Giant
Hellcannon
Iron Daemon
Dreadquake Mortar
You can Count Throgg as a named Bull Centaur that makes normal Bull Centaurs (trolls) core
You can count Wulfrik as a named Hobgoblin that allows normal Hobgoblins (marauders) to come off of table edges.
normal hero/lord choices (though you would only be able to put CD specific BSB or Daemonsmiths in IG
Supposedly someone saw the artwork for the K’daai in the monstrous arcana concept book thing. So there would be a slim chance it could be in that book with a scroll of binding.
The toad dragon (unmounted) is in there with a scroll of binding, so a counts as option there.
So I just finished a 2K point game against Ogres a few moments ago and had a lot of fun with this list. I took:
Lvl 4 Hashut Sorcerer-Prophet on lvl 1 Fire Lammasu
Dark Castellan BSB –with 15 Chaos Warriors of Nurgle w/great weapons, command, and flaming banner (used as CD warriors) –(can I put a CD character in a WOC unit?)
Throgg the Troll King (used as Bull Centaur character) –with 3 Chaos Trolls (used as Bull Centaurs)
19 Marauders w/ Flails, light armour, and shields (used as hobgoblins)
Death Shrieker
Magma Cannon
Hellcannon
Dreadquake Mortar w/slave Ogre
he took:
lvl 3 Slaughtermaster w/ lore of the Great Maw –8 Ogre Bulls w/ Ironfists
Tyrant w/ brace of pistols –Bruiser –7 Iron Guts
Lvl 1 Fire-belly with Arabian carpet
10 Gnoblars x3
3 lead belchers x2
Iron Blaster
Let it be known right off the bat that I mis-fired all over the place. The Hellcannon got one S10 shot off in the first turn, and then died in close combat against an 9-strong Irongut unit w/Tyrant and Bruiser in the second round. The Dreadquake succeeded in misfiring three times, destroying itself the third time. I managed to hit two units at the same time once, and one of the units was mine (stupid scatter), so I don’t think I’ll ever take that again without having a daemonsmith sitting next to it. The Death Shrieker only managed to do wounds against flammable units, and that only happened once. The magma cannon, however was golden. I wished I’d taken three of those rather than the Dreadquake and the Death Shrieker…
I love, Love, LOOOOVE the lore of Hashut. There’s a lot of cool synergy in that lore when combined with fire magic, war machines, and flaming banners. I cannot emphasize how cool this lore is.
If what I did was legal, putting a Dark Castellan in a WOC Nurgle unit is awesome. -1 to hit combined with BSB, stubborn, 4+ armour save, great weapons, and hatred (from the sorcerer prophet) makes for an amazingly tough to kill unit (although they are limited to Movement 3 from the Castellan). They killed a whole unit of bulls with Slaughtermaster, an iron blaster, and a unit of Gnoblars (whoopee) in two turns.
Throgg and his trolls (er… I mean bull centaurs ) did really well as expected. His breath weapon always comes in handy at the right moment. They got second place in unit of the game, only because I used them to hunt down smaller units.
Marauder/Hobgoblins didn’t do much, but I didn’t spend many points on them either. Had we done 2250 points, I would have put Wulfrik in the unit to help them come off a table edge and surprise some lead belchers.
I wish I could say more about the Lammasu, but it took a cannonball to the face in turn 1. :(
I am hesitant to play the Legion list until I get my hands on the Tamurkhan book, but I must say that I was highly pleased with playing the army this way. If I get in some games with the legion list and don’t get any warm fuzzies, I think I will continue to play them like this…
Who is your armies general cos a Chaos dwarf cannot be an alliance general?
And secondly no, you cant join CD characters to non CD units contempt prevents them from panicking if units of lesser races are destroyed or break nearby but on the flip side it prevents them from joining them too. Technically if you are using WoC with IG rules you can get away with it.
Honestly, this sort of seems a bit pointless - why bother using Chaos Warriors as Chaos Dwarfs when Infernal Guard are much closer to what they should be? You might as well just use a straight Legion of Azgorh list, since all the units you’re representing with WoC units are right there already. Maybe I’m missing something…
I made Throgg the general since he was the only WOC character. That stinks about no CD in WOC units, though…
I guess the main idea was getting slightly better stats for some of the units (such as 2 Attacks vs 1 Attack for the core warriors) while still maintaining a Chaos Dwarf theme. My whole idea behind using the WOC rules was to open up more variety in unit selection since there were so many complaints of being limited with selections, unit cost/stats, etc.
Yeah, but all the WoC units you’re using are counting as things that are already in the Legion of Azgorh list - why use Marauders for Hobgoblins when you could just use Hobgoblins?
mostly because I didn’t have the list on hand, so I wasn’t sure if Hobgoblins were one of the units that could be used with WOC. Plus, against Ogres, it seemed a good idea to take flails for the +2 Strength.
)
) did really well as expected. His breath weapon always comes in handy at the right moment. They got second place in unit of the game, only because I used them to hunt down smaller units.