richard barby:
putting some thought in to it you can go multi small units but they dont all have to be the same
with no refference to points costs you could go
prophet on taurus
bsb in unit of 15 iron sword
2 x 10 guard
1 x 20 hobgoblins
1 x20 hobgoblins archers
1 x10 iron sword with blunderbusses
5 wolf riders
3 centurs
3 kadi
destroyer
death rocketx2 with attched deamondsmith
magma cannon
Grimbold Blackhammer:
I think you are missing the core of your army.
Grimbold Blackhammer
GodHead:
That’s kind of the idea. Run a list without a core of the army.
Here are 9 pages of battle reports, showing how it can be done with: Empire; Dwarfs; Warriors of Chaos; Tomb Kings; etc. etc.
http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=94537
Grimbold Blackhammer:
No I mean he needs to buy more core units - the list doesn’t come close to meeting the 25% rule. That and Ironsworn cannot be fielded with Blunderbusses so far as I know…
Grimbold Blackhammer
GodHead:
I’m pretty sure when he says “iron sword” he means Iron Guard, which would:
a.) satisfy the core requirement; and
b.) be able to be equipped with blunderbusses.
richard barby:
like i said with no refference to points. but the idea is still the same lots of units but not all the same being more versitile having some monsters and fast cav archers
Mat the hairy:
MSU is a very good idea, but you will fail if you do not take into consideration few things.
MSU List are based on 3 points :
_ Keep in mind the 25% Panic Test Rule.
_ 10 Members strong Unit are needed at the END of the fight in order to remove the Rank bonus in case of a charge on Flank.
_ Movement.
Thus,
A. You need to boost the number of dwarves per unit up to 13 (because you will need 5 Dwarves to start testing instead of 4 if they are 12)
B. You need to take high Movement troops ( Aka Raiders + Khan)
C. You need to include the +1 M Banner in one of your IG Troop.
D. You need to make sure that when you will touch something it will be smashed to pieces, thus you need Heavy Weapon on IG and 1 unit wit FG to disrupt Fast Calavery.
JonJon:
Sounds good I have to try this,not my style of play looks well thought out
Jon
GodHead:
Well, thanks to universalbattle.com and some discussion with SmithF, I’ve dropped the Destroyer entirely.
My army really is about using tools that other players don’t now.
I’ve trimmed the fat, and found something that works really, really well.
Sorcerer-Prophet with: Level 4 upgrade; Lore of Hashut; Charmed Shield; and Talisman of Preservation - 575
Daemonsmith with: Level 2 upgrade; and Lore of Fire - 130
Daemonsmith with: Level 2 upgrade; and Lore of Fire - 130
12 Infernal Guard with: standard and musician - 164
12 Infernal Guard with: standard and musician - 164
12 Infernal Guard with: standard and musician - 164
12 Infernal Guard with: standard and musician - 164
4 K’daai Fireborn - 220
4 K’daai Fireborn - 220
3 Bull Centaur Renders with: great weapons - 150
Deathshrieker Rocket - 100
Deathshrieker Rocket - 100
Dreadquake Mortar with: slave-ogre crewman - 215
I really think this is the ideal war machine setup.
The counter-battery fire of 2 Demolition shells and s10 mortar shot with re-rolls means an end to enemy war machines very fast. With the re-rolls for scatter, it’s a 55% chance to score a ‘HIT’.
The Engineer’s Fire magic also comes in very/ handy.
The added artillery oomph and the faster units has really been a boon. Plus the damn Destroyer never really did it for me. When you win a game with a Destroyer in your army the other player will raise an eyebrow.
I don’t want to leave any question as to who beat them, and why they got beat.
I don’t want to leave any “yeah, but’s” at the end of the game.
"Yeah, yeah, aside from the Destroyer and magma cannon, Chaos Dwarfs are generally overcosted, weak and unable to do significant damage. Well I just beat you without those two units. With an MSU Dwarf army. In 8th edition."
Feels good man.
Samanos:
very interesting list i have to say. what were the results if i may ask?
Well, thanks to universalbattle.com and some discussion with SmithF, I've dropped the Destroyer entirely.
My army really is about using tools that other players don't now.
I've trimmed the fat, and found something that works really, really well.
Sorcerer-Prophet with: Level 4 upgrade; Lore of Hashut; Charmed Shield; and Talisman of Preservation - 575
Daemonsmith with: Level 2 upgrade; and Lore of Fire - 130
Daemonsmith with: Level 2 upgrade; and Lore of Fire - 130
12 Infernal Guard with: standard and musician - 164
12 Infernal Guard with: standard and musician - 164
12 Infernal Guard with: standard and musician - 164
12 Infernal Guard with: standard and musician - 164
4 K'daai Fireborn - 220
4 K'daai Fireborn - 220
3 Bull Centaur Renders with: great weapons - 150
Deathshrieker Rocket - 100
Deathshrieker Rocket - 100
Dreadquake Mortar with: slave-ogre crewman - 215
I really think this is the ideal war machine setup.
The counter-battery fire of 2 Demolition shells and s10 mortar shot with re-rolls means an end to enemy war machines very fast. With the re-rolls for scatter, it's a 55% chance to score a 'HIT'.
The Engineer's Fire magic also comes in very/ handy.
The added artillery oomph and the faster units has really been a boon. Plus the damn Destroyer never really did it for me. When you win a game with a Destroyer in your army the other player will raise an eyebrow.
I don't want to leave any question as to who beat them, and why they got beat.
I don't want to leave any "yeah, but's" at the end of the game.
"Yeah, yeah, aside from the Destroyer and magma cannon, Chaos Dwarfs are generally overcosted, weak and unable to do significant damage. Well I just beat you without those two units. With an MSU Dwarf army. In 8th edition."
Feels good man.
GodHead
GodHead:
The results have been very positive, despite what I am about to say:
I have played 3 games so far with the Kdaii-less CD. 2 losses and a win.
The first loss was to High Elves. Atrocious positioning left me without my Sorcerer-Prophet after turn 1. The Dreadquake misfired, misfired and exploded turn 2, leaving half a unit of Dragon Princes that I really had no answer for.
The second loss was to a Bretonnian player whose bus of characters and unit of Knights Errant was worth more than: 3 units of Infernal Guard; 2 wizards; and 2 Deathshriekers. Forgetting the FAQ to Knight rank bonus, I charged the sorcerer prophet into the bus, along with the K’daai. Of course the general flees, the K’daai go poof and my general ends up 1" in front of his Men at Arms, who promptly catch him turn 2. Despite this, I destroy everything else he has except for the knight bus and a unit of Knights Errant.
Third game against another High Elf player. Careful play meant that my Sorcerer didn’t die. Mortar devastates Dragon Princes. Rockets and fire magic to kill eagles and Reavers. Ashstorm on White Lions as the Taurus breathes fire on them. Artillery starts killing 30+ Elves a turn. Meanwhile the Dwarfs are advancing all over the board. His haste to stop the fire falling from the sky means I get flank and rear charges everywhere.
That’s how it’s going to play when it works. I need to quit rushing the Sorcerer forward like a Chaos Lord.
JonJon:
Lord rush is also my issue,but the figure is so nice and almost always include him lol
Jon
Rickie:
Sorry for the slight thread necromancy. But Was wondering now that some time has passed how things have gone or evolved.
Am in the procces of painting up my own army and decided even before I started buying stuff that I would like to try Msu. So this thread was a nice find, am curently going throu SmithF’s posts on that other forum aswell.
In the list you posted I’m mostly curios of the Fireborn, whats the gameplan for them? And are they able to function well at that sieze?
ChungEssence:
Liking the new list and the reasons for using it.
Does your Prophet run solo?
Anyway, cheers for the reports and keep em coming
maded12:
Hello all,
I have been playing with an MSU list the past two months. When you look at my list you’ll notice a few unnusual choices.
1. I have no war machines. We have a lot of good war machines. And every now and then I exchange a sorceror for a war machine. But the main point of my army is to go forward.
2. My lord has a flying carpet combined with the extra thougness and a 2+ save so that he can survive whatever comes his way. The gear is subject to change but for now I have settled on this setup.
3. The blunderbusses. They are expensive and have a short range. But I love them. You get solid infantery with a very solid stand and shoot. And they can shoot those pesky skaven and goblin horde blocks before engaging them in combant. My biggest problem with them is that I really want 3 more in the unit. I just don’t have the points.
4. The bull centaurs. What can I say about them that hasn’t been said before? I’m still testing what I like better, these or the kdaachi’s. So far The bull centaurs have been better for me. The ability to chose a shield vs archery and low strength army’s or a great weapon makes them better in my oppinion.
I’m looking forward to hearing some feedback on my list. The only thing I would like to ask is that you keep in mind that I play this list for the fun. Pherhaps one day the list will be tournament ready (I can always dream can’t I:) )
------------------------------
Lords
Sorcerer-Prophet
Darkforged Weapon, Arabyan Carpet, Enchanted Shield, Lore of Hashut, Stone Mantle, Wizard Level 4
Heroes
Daemonsmith Sorcerer
Ensorcelled Hand Weapon, Lore of Metal, Power Stone, Wizard Level 1
Daemonsmith Sorcerer
Ensorcelled Hand Weapon, Dispel scroll, Lore of Fire, Wizard Level 1
Dark Castellan
Battle Standard Bearer, Black Hammer of Hashut, Potion of Speed, Shield
Core
Chaos Dwarf Infernal Guard
Overseer, Standard Bearer 22x Hailshot Blunderbusses
Chaos Dwarf Infernal Guard
Overseer, Standard Bearer 13x Great Weapons
Chaos Dwarf Infernal Guard
Overseer, Standard Bearer 13x Great Weapons
Special
Bull Centaur Renders 3 in total
Bull Centaur Ba’hal 2 Bull Centaur Render 3x Great Weapons 3x Shields
Bull Centaur Renders 3 in total
Bull Centaur Ba’hal 2 Bull Centaur Render 3x Great Weapons 3x Shields
Bull Centaur Renders 3 in total
Bull Centaur Ba’hal 2 Bull Centaur Render 3x Great Weapons 3x Shields
Grimbold Blackhammer:
That’s a very interesting list. How has it done so far?
Grimbold Blackhammer
maded12:
I tend to win more then I lose when I face anything with the word Elf in it. Ussually the match comes down to how well they get to use their ‘hard core’ units, think big swordmaster blocks, big knight blocks and the likes. If I can get those units in the open/multi charged/avoid them the match becames rather easy.
Goblins (and orcs) are a coin flip. The more orc blocks they have the harder the games are. Goblin blocks don’t really do anything, and fanatics tend to be better for me then against me :cheers But severall big blocks of orcs can give me real trouble.
Ogre kingdoms… The biggest problem with them are the led belchers. Their 1500pts fat ass stick wielding (dinasour riding) battalions causes me a lot less problems then 300 pts of belchers.
I have played a few games against skaven and I’ve been butcherd each game. So that match up still needs some work 
I’ve planned two games vs ogres next weekend. I’m probably going to drop a mage and go for some artillery. Although I’m not yet sure what is really good vs ogres.
I’ll post a combat report next sunday. Cheers people!!
maded12:
Something I would like to have some feedback on is the following:
1 lamansu
Or
2 deamonsmiths
What do you people think is better?
The magic power is equal (1 lvl 2 vs 2 lvl 1’s) with pro’s and con’s either way.
The combat stats are also almost equal. Before you start screaming let me explain this. A lamansu is thougher but it’s a big target for every bit of enemy fire and to make things even more intresting I also need to put my lord on him…
The smiths give some hitting power to my CD troops by being in the front row. This is really important for my small units. And definintly worth it.
So I’m really curious what you all think about it.
ChungEssence:
Basically, you’re trading for movement if you go with the Lamassu.
I personally think the double smiths are better but then I have war machines which use their ability. Lamassu can get where you want, when you want. Smiths are much more limited in that regards although much more durable and customisable.
Re: the combat stats, the Lamassu adds one very important thing which the Smiths don’t… a Thunderstomp. This means that imo a Lamassu is a much more fearsome combatant than 2 smiths and much more capable of turning a combat (against troops) in your favour.
Basically i’d say it’s a matter of preference if you’re not getting the Smiths for their smithing ability.
If you want to hedge your bets the Daemon Smith’s are a much better choice (ie, kill 3 wizards to eliminate your magic vs kill 1 model)… that said, with great risks come potentially great rewards and with the Lamassu you get the 18inch bubble with massive terror causing movement.
maded12:
Hmmz your points are all very good. Pherhaps I’m just troubled to much by ‘the fear’. But turn 1 cannonbal seems so scary…