rpitts2004:
I’d rather have skaven get re-balanced not us. All 8th edition books are pretty balanced including LoA, yeah we have some nasty weapons, but that doesn’t mean I still can’t get tabled by a Skaven player (dirty rats) If you think it is overpowered than do some house rules to gimp yourself =) Or play against better people
burock:
i never understood why the destroyer was having such a bad reaction when I explained that it cannot be wounded by S4- unless the attacks were magical (as per the old rules). I mean, there are ethereal troops in the game already, which are immune to nonmagical attacks altogether for far less points than a destroyer.
I can write similar stuff for the magma cannon or ash storm spell; but that’s not the point. You cannot judge (or nerf) anything outside of its context. taking the best parts of an army out is not the solution in my opinion.
I also hang out on the dwarfs forum, Bugman’s Brewery. Recently there was a topic about alternate rules about the WMs, stating that the cannons and like are so powerful. One of the forum guys answered smt along "oh, and T4 is so OP, maybe they should remove it too…"
Sarcasm won the day imho…
rpitts2004:
Yeah I am on bugmans too and I commented on the “cannons being too strong” I"m like Seriously? IF IT AINT BROKE DON"T FIX IT! I played in a tournament this weekend with two magma cannons and a destroyer. I did not get first.
Bitterman:
Because they are the opinions of people who are the very ones I am playing against.I'm afraid I don't follow. I can understand it might be frustrating to having a "power-gamer" gaming group if you're not yourself a power gamer, but I don't understand why nerfing your own army helps with that.
Veshnakar
Veshnakar:
I'm afraid I don't follow. I can understand it might be frustrating to having a "power-gamer" gaming group if you're not yourself a power gamer, but I don't understand why nerfing your own army helps with that.
The example you give of someone else's list is a nasty list, fair enough, but I don't see what list someone else is using has anything to do with you.
tvandyke:
Because they are the opinions of people who are the very ones I am playing against. Some of us aren't so lucky as to have friends who endorse or support an environment where taking a fun and fluffy list is encourageable.
Veshnakar
rpitts2004:
Sounds like you need a new club to play at, because Skaven, Dark elves are higher tiers than LOA so they should just out law them also. LOA is being allowed in the upcoming texas GT, and GW allows you to play them at the store. So yeah I would bring this up to your "club" and tell them if GW is allowing it then they should too.I'm afraid I don't follow. I can understand it might be frustrating to having a "power-gamer" gaming group if you're not yourself a power gamer, but I don't understand why nerfing your own army helps with that.
The example you give of someone else's list is a nasty list, fair enough, but I don't see what list someone else is using has anything to do with you.
Because the club I play at, which is really the only place I can play, is considering not allowing the Legion of Azgorh at our tournaments now, and people are even apprehensive to play against the list in friendly games. I always play fluffy lists myself, but it's an issue of one bad apple spoiling the bunch right now.
Perhaps I was just a tiny bit frusterated when I originally posted this, as I have almost spend $2000 USD on my Chaos Dwarfs from forgeworld since their release, and the prospect of not being able to play the army I love is a little concerning.
Veshnakar
Barukh:
Veshnakar:
After reading your explanation as to why and seeing how the Skaven player made the list “cheesy”, I can understand where you come from. I do more than you think because I am the only one who isn’t a power player at my local GW store. I have never been, as I don’t enjoy that kind of playing style. For my first 6 years of this game I played Lizards. I beat alot, but that was when the dice gods took a shine to me. Then I played Daemons when they came out, and played them for a year more in 8th ed. I personally never struggled about 80% of the time against any of my opponents, since they always focussed on being powerful, I just took away their ace in the hole and they would fall apart. Sometimes, however, I do have a difficulty with people. I’ve seen cheesy lists. Personally, the army you posted really isn’t cheesy, everyone just panicked on seeing it. He will have the bad rep, and that is his fault because people don’t understand that kind of list.
The people I play against? Try a horde of 40 halberd and shield chaos warriors of khorne, then 30 tzeentch chosen deathstar, then there cracked out characters and anything to fill in the points. Don’t get me started on high elves either. I see plenty of Teclis almost everytime I go. Plenty of Swordmaster hordes. Plenty of Sea Guard. Plenty of Eagles. The people I play who walk around with THOSE CHEESY LISTS do nothing but try to win. Comp? Comp doesn’t exist in my store. GT doesn’t happen in my store. Because these kids get nerfed and then whine about it. I always ask the manager (he is the only one who works there anymore) if we could try doing Comp or a GT guided tournament. He is always enthusiastic and offers it, but whenever he asks I get the crap for it because everyone thinks “it will ruin their fun”. Legion of Azgorh is just a list written by FW, who obviously never have played the game when they wrote it. It happens. It is becoming a pattern in GW. Play-testing is sparce at best, so any new army that comes out will have a “broken” unit or monster. It happens. When WoC comes out, I promise you there will be something else for your friends to be mad about, so you will be able to play your Chaos Dwarfs freely without criticism.
rpitts2004:
I played against the Tzeentch Chosen Deathstar in my last game and 2nd turn I got the charge with the destroyer in front, infernal guard in the on one flank and bull centaurs on the other. My destroyer targeted his bsb and I ended up breaking the chosen and ran them down. He then complained my army was OP because he didn’t insta win against three units.
Barukh:
Well one high five for wrecking the deathstar! Two, that’s the problem I always have. People here whine when they lose. When 8th was just starting out, I sent up my bloodthirster up agianst the emperor of the empire on a steed along with his stupid inner circle knights. I challenged, and by turn 3 (emperor and BSB slaughtered, he cowered his champion so I just destroyed the unit), he quit and said my bloodthirster was OP. Coming from the guy who was walking around with 60 greatswords with a priest spam and like 4 warmachines he should have used to kill my bloodthirster.
rpitts2004:
Vesh if those people in your club have that much of an issue they really should see and check around at GT tournment rankings and they will see other armies than LoA on top. Every army has something thats big nasty, people just think Forgeworld and assume it’s super OP. Since GW stores allow LOA that should be the green light everywhere
Discoking:
There’s a tournament in October called Tribute, which isn’t allowing LoA.
When I asked if there was any sway on that fact, I got this response:
Unfortunatly not sorry. We know a lot of tournaments are running them and they are not destroying the scene;
But we decided that if GW do not think they are ‘balanced’ enough to allow into the Throne of Skulls then we should not allow them into Tribute.
Also without seeing them in action myself (have never played them) it is difficult to try to find a valid comp restriction for them at the moment.
I’ve asked if Ravening Hordes would be a safer bet for them…
Bitterman:
Because the club I play at, which is really the only place I can play, is considering not allowing the Legion of Azgorh at our tournaments now, and people are even apprehensive to play against the list in friendly games. I always play fluffy lists myself, but it's an issue of one bad apple spoiling the bunch right now.Oh, OK. I guess I get where you're coming from better now.
Veshnakar
gIL^:
Im sorry with the problems you are facing and i agree the Chaos Dwarfs do need overhauling to an extent, But my belief is if a person has come to the conclusion that they don't want to play Chaos Dwarfs they won't accept an FAQ.I'm afraid I don't follow. I can understand it might be frustrating to having a "power-gamer" gaming group if you're not yourself a power gamer, but I don't understand why nerfing your own army helps with that.
The example you give of someone else's list is a nasty list, fair enough, but I don't see what list someone else is using has anything to do with you.
Because the club I play at, which is really the only place I can play, is considering not allowing the Legion of Azgorh at our tournaments now, and people are even apprehensive to play against the list in friendly games. I always play fluffy lists myself, but it's an issue of one bad apple spoiling the bunch right now.
Perhaps I was just a tiny bit frusterated when I originally posted this, as I have almost spend $2000 USD on my Chaos Dwarfs from forgeworld since their release, and the prospect of not being able to play the army I love is a little concerning.
Veshnakar
tvandyke:
That would simply be a tournament I wouldn't attend then. Our gaming group usually decides, as a group, which out of town tournaments we want to attend. We'd just choose a differnent tournament and I'd make the tournament organizer aware of it. I suppose if it's a tournament that regularly sells out and has people on a waiting list he wouldn't care, but if it's like a lot of tournaments where there's always slots that need to be filled, he might reconsider. A few years back there was a new tournament that was being held and the RH Chaos Dwarfs weren't allowed. I asked him why and he stated that it's such an outdated book and the GW GT's were no longer allowing them. I pointed out that there were 5 of us that want to sign up, but Chaos Dwarfs were the only army I had that was tournament ready and if I couldn't go, all 5 of us would just choose a different tourney. He ended up allowing them.
There's a tournament in October called Tribute, which isn't allowing LoA.
When I asked if there was any sway on that fact, I got this response:
Unfortunatly not sorry. We know a lot of tournaments are running them and they are not destroying the scene;
But we decided that if GW do not think they are 'balanced' enough to allow into the Throne of Skulls then we should not allow them into Tribute.
Also without seeing them in action myself (have never played them) it is difficult to try to find a valid comp restriction for them at the moment.
I've asked if Ravening Hordes would be a safer bet for them...
Discoking
rpitts2004:
mmmm I don't think we have throne of skulls here in the US and ard boys has been cancelled.
There's a tournament in October called Tribute, which isn't allowing LoA.
When I asked if there was any sway on that fact, I got this response:
Unfortunatly not sorry. We know a lot of tournaments are running them and they are not destroying the scene;
But we decided that if GW do not think they are 'balanced' enough to allow into the Throne of Skulls then we should not allow them into Tribute.
Also without seeing them in action myself (have never played them) it is difficult to try to find a valid comp restriction for them at the moment.
I've asked if Ravening Hordes would be a safer bet for them...
Discoking
Barukh:
I think throne of skulls is an open tourney now but it is only in the UK. With Ard Boyz cancelled basically tournaments are ran either by GT or the store itself. Leaves me hanging for a while 
only tournament I normally do is Adepticon.
rpitts2004:
Yeah vesh if I were you I would just continue using LoA and just say tough luck to the morons cheesing over skaven
Veshnakar:
Believe you me, I am fighting for it! The worst part about the new guy using the Chaos Dwarf list is that he is using the Mantic Dwarfs, (not even the abyssal dwarfs! just regular ones) as proxy for the army just to cheese it out to his behest for a low cost. He painted them up in red and black colors, but just kept boasting that the army cost him less than $200.
I don’t think many of you can fathom the extent at which I loathe this particular gentleman. Most of my struggle has been trying to reason with the rest of the people in the club that its not the LoA list that is broken, but rather the guy using the list is quite broken. Been gaining some foothold with that too considering his reputation in the past with the previous armies he has played.
Thommy H:
What’s the point of even playing Warhammer that way? It’s not even designed as a balanced tournament game. It’s like the people who buy those books that tell you how to win the lottery, and spend time looking at what numbers have come up before, despite the fact that by definition they all have an equal chance of coming up every time.
Wanting to win at Warhammer is like wanting to be the guy who finishes his expensive steak dinner first, even though no one else is even racing him.