sam585:
What unit formation were your fireglaives in? 10x3? 8x4?
Twisted Dwarf:
What unit formation were your fireglaives in? 10x3? 8x4?They were almost always in horde, unless they were diminished by a spell, in that case they went 5 wide for ranks.
sam585
The guns rarely do much it its a nice option to have to clear away some chaff, or to give them something to do when there's not much else for them to do. I really like strength 5 even at initive 2. Outside of elves they strike at the same time as a lot of hard hitters (ogres orcs undead nurgle) and before great weapon troops. So normally I get the hordes worth of attacks in before I lose my back rank.
Twisted Dwarf:
So I played in a one day swedish COMP tournament this past weekend. I brought the same list but I fired the 2 rockets and the fire mage and replaced them with a hell bound Iron Daemon. The list game to a 12.8 in the swedish system and I was happy with that. The main reason I dumped the rockets is, how confusing the comp system is with the war machines interacting with the daemon smiths.
Sorcerer-Prophet
+ Talisman of Preservation
+ Arabyan Carpet
+ Enchanted Shield
+ Level 4 Wizard
+ Lore of Death
34 Chaos Dwarf Infernal Guard
+ fireglaives
+ Deathmask
+ musician
+ standard bearer
+ Banner of Swiftness
8 Bull Centaur Renders
+ additional hand weapons
+ musician
+ standard bearer
+ Razor Standard
8 Bull Centaur Renders
+ great weapons
+ musician
+ standard bearer
Iron Daemon
+Hell Bound
K’daai Destroyer
Game 1 - Lizardmen (comp 13) Steven Yarbicus
Slann = knows all the lores + BSB
Scar vet
3x Chief on teradon
Skink Priest scroll
Skink Priest cloak of feathers
45 saraus w/ shields
3x 10 man unit of skinks
2x stegadons
1x salamander
Trogladon channeling upgrade
Steve was a fun opponent but doesn’t get to play often. He had nothing to deal with my bull cenbtaurs and I basically ran forward and ran him over. I killed everything he had but the slann and the saraus because they stayed in the far corner and there was not going to be enough time to finish them off. He kill my Kadaii destroyer with skinks, as they do.
18-2 for me
Game 3 Empire (comp 8) - I forget his name but he is a top NW regional player
Lvl 4 light mage power stone
Arch Lector on war alter
Captain BSB
Lvl 1 light mage
lvl 1 light mage scroll
Captain on Pegasus with 2++ vs fire
40+ halbadiers with 2 detachments on 20
5 pistol fast cav
Skirmishing archers
Cannon
3 Demigryphs
Steam Tank
So Turn one I surge forward keeping my Iron Daemon directly across from his steam tank, I plan on taking some wounds off of it right away to try and lower how effective it can be. The Kadaii goes on the far flank and he puts the war alter his cannon and the light council on that side. I run the Kadaii up and hope he has a low magic phase if he survives the eminent barrage of missiles he’s into combat and wrecking stuff. Nothing exciting happens for me turn 1. His turn 1 the Kadaii vanishes into thin air and 2 wounds go on the train.
My turn 2 the train charges the steam tank and does 2 wounds (arg!) the fire glavies take a building and start taking pot shots are the demis. A unit of bulls charge a unit of redirecting fast cav and over run into his captain on peg. His turn 2 his steam tank does a couple wounds to my train, he postions some units, moves demis away from the glaives, and kills 2 bulls with a cannon shot. Also his captain on peg dies in combat and I reform to face his light council, ya that was a game changing mistake there.
My turn 3 I charge the council, kill it. His turn 3 he kills my profit on carpet with a witch hunter, shooting attacks. lol I was on one wound from some magic missiles previously but it was epic and funny.
Rest of the game is me conserving points and picking up some soft points.
17-3 for me
Game 4 - Warriors of Chaos (Comp 12) Matt Beasley Atlantic Masters qualifier
Lord on disc 1+ 3+ great weapon
Lord on Daemon steed 1+ 4++ great weapon
Hero on Daemon steed 1+ Great weapon BSB
Sorcerer lvl 2 on daemonic steed, dispell scroll, lore of Death
Sorcerer lvl 2 lore of fire, skull of katan
16+ chaos warriors tzeentch, Shields, Blasted standard
5 warhounds
5 slaanesh marauder horsemen
2x chariots on slaanesh
Warshrine MoT
3 Skull crushers
Hell Cannon
Yikes! This was not what I would call a good match up and basically the only reason I take the Lore of DEATH. My list has trouble with super characters and the bulls just can’t crack them hard enough nor bring enough static res. I roll up purple sun, soulblight, doom and darkness and spirit leach. Not bad. He quickly comments that the only thing my purple sun is good against is the Hell Cannon and I remark that it’s likely my only hope at popping a character.
Turn 1
Kadaii fails a frenzy check to the van guarding horsemen, he flees and the kadaii moves 3 inches. I basically hold my ground because I know he’s coming at me. I cast spirit leach and he dispells it, I then cast purple sun. The purple sun would need an 8 or a 10 in order to hit his warrior unit but my intention is rather to put a piece of impassable terrain right in front of him so he can’t move and then needs to use his power dice in order to dispell the sun in his turn. He debates what to do, and finally settles on using his dispell scroll.
He has all his characters other than his lord in the unit of chaos warriors in order to screen them from the pain train taking shots at them. He moves forward ever so cautiously not wanting me to get the charge next turn. He consults the skull and rolls 3 1’s and no 6’s. Magic, he casts fireball level 2 at my profit and he takes a wound off of him even with my bouncing half the hits to my near by infernal guard. Hell canon scatters off into no where, it refuses to betray it’s makers.
Turn 2
The Kadaii destroyer fails yet another frenzy check this time on a chariot which flees and moves 3 inches forward. I hold my positions and wait for him to move into my charge range as right now I feel like I have board control and with the Kadaii still chasing his own shadow on the flank I have to wait another turn to apply pressure. In my magic phase I again cast spirit leach, he again dispells it, I then cast purple sun and this time he has to let it off. I backed up with my profit this turn so I needed an 8 or a 10 again in order to hit the warrior unit. I roll a 10 and clip all the characters and 6 warriors. He fails the initiative check on his BSB and his Chaos Lord general. I gain 3 dice, and cast doom and darkness on the fleeing chariot. Yup, now it’s going to be tough for him to do anything. Shooting the train eliminates a chariot and the dogs run off the board.
His turn 2, the fleeing chariot fails it’s rally with doom and darkness and runs off the board. He moves up flying the disc lord all the way up yet out of charge arc of one of my bull units. Juggers move up to combo charge with the disc lord on the bull unit next turn. Magic, He tries to fireball my profit but no wounds this time.
That is pretty much the game. Over the course of the next few turns he manages to kill my Destroyer and that’s all, he managed to get the war shrine into the rear and the hell cannon into the front but I wasn’t all that worried about lossing him, he dies every game anyways. I snipe off the death mage and then the fire mage. His Lord goes into the bulls and the skull crushers fail. His lord is stuck in combat with the bulls which are leadership 10 steadfast thanks to the profit zipping over. The train peels wounds off the crushers before they go in and and they no longer have 3 models so my steadfast is going to last the rest of the game. He gained 500 bonus points because i made an error and didn’t secure the objective in the middle else it would of been a 16-4 for me, I got a little sloppy because i fealt the game was in hand.
13-7 for me
In the end I got a favorite opponent vote and enough other soft scores to pull out the Overall win for the tournament.
So chalk up another win for the BULLS of HASHUT!
Malorndk:
Holy Hashut you are on a roll! You have convinced me to tru to big units of bulls, but I’ll probably fail miserably xD
Bloodbeard:
I’ll send you some slaves Twisted Dwarf. Yet annother victory and a very nice rundown of the games. Congratulations man.
I have only bought stuff for 6 BCs and a Taur’ruk - might need to get more.
Twisted Dwarf:
Last 4 tourneys I’m 2-1-1-1
Key with the Bulls is knowing what they can and can not fight. T5 and 3+ is huge on defense so they can stick around.
I don’t think tauraks are worth it. 4 Attacks is not enough and for a kitted one your looking at 200 plus. That’s 4 bulls or better yet 12 T5 wounds.
sam585:
But Taur’ruks are one of the few things in a chaos dwarf army that can go toe-to-toe with other armies combat monsters/lords. Survivability wise the Taur’ruk will live through the pain much better then 4 centaurs with a 1+ re-roll (when up against str6).The Taur’ruk is worth 2 bullcentaurs alone in the amount of attacks he brings not to mention he hits more often, hits harder, and forces you to re-roll successful ward saves (when kitted). Now with your list, replacing a few centaurs with a Taur’ruk would make that centaur unit truly threatening, and open up the amount of viable targets for your block. My real questions are how do you deal with chaff heavy armies? Why Lore of Death over Hashut? Do you miss having a dispel scroll? Do your infernal guard see a lot of close combat, do you bother shooting with them much?
Scar:
Good to see that this list also works!
I thought about adding a daemon to replace the deathshriekers but was in doubt if it would work.
Pictures please!! 
dromar:
Realy nice result! I use to play 2x6 bull centaurs withs HW.
Why CCW instead of HW? Do you think that shield would be interesting for the 2+ against shooting?
How do your fireglaives behaves? are they good enough for there point cost? do they work in the shooting phase?
I use to play blunderbuss but was often sad due to the very short range.
Do you really think that iron demon is better than 2 roquette launcher + Deamonsmith?
Why no hobgoblins khan on wolf?
What’s your opinion on k’daai fireborn or even siege giant?
Twisted Dwarf:
But Taur'ruks are one of the few things in a chaos dwarf army that can go toe-to-toe with other armies combat monsters/lords. Survivability wise the Taur'ruk will live through the pain much better then 4 centaurs with a 1+ re-roll (when up against str6).The Taur'ruk is worth 2 bullcentaurs alone in the amount of attacks he brings not to mention he hits more often, hits harder, and forces you to re-roll successful ward saves (when kitted). Now with your list, replacing a few centaurs with a Taur'ruk would make that centaur unit truly threatening, and open up the amount of viable targets for your block. My real questions are how do you deal with chaff heavy armies? Why Lore of Death over Hashut? Do you miss having a dispel scroll? Do your infernal guard see a lot of close combat, do you bother shooting with them much?Taur'ruks don't really go toe to toe with other people's lords or monsters in my experience, it's one of those myths, they look great on paper but just don't perform. They have generally 4 strength 7 attacks and against lords you will be hitting on 4s and that means 2 hits, that combat lord your fighting likely has a good ward and armour, better than yours at least and will be hitting you on 3s. You can see it's not going to end well. When I do take a taur'ruk I try and keep him cheap and use him specficly. I like sword of strife and enchanted shield. 1+ and 6 strength 5 is real nice. He won't fight a lord, but he can assassinate Heroes and mages and when with a unit of great weapon Bulls can give them grinding power against massed infantry since the Bulls only have 2 attacks each. He can also run solo beside the Bulls where he gets a look out sir roll if he's with in 3 inches. This is handy when playing wood elfs because he becomes another threat to there msu army style.
sam585
Right now my successes are based on having more wounds and attacks in units making the points harder to get. Hero's can be assassinated or death sniped and now you have to get the points back.
Chaff heavy armies I just charge the chaff, if they double flee then and I'm in a bad position I'll either fly my caster behind the Bulls and bank on steadfast 10 to hold or flee myself. It all depends on the threat. Most chaff heavy armies I play don't also have big blocks. My Bulls routinely take charges from chariots, chaos lords, scar vets, and the like and just hold. Those units have 24 T5 wounds in them and they do hit back.
Death is superior to hashut with this combat army style. First I can snipe points early and force my opponent to move into my charge range as he feels pressured as he is now behind. Secondly soul blight is comicly good, cast that on any unit the bull units are fighting and just have a laugh, not only are you harder now to wound but your making saves better too as you lower their armor penetration. Then on top of that you wound better, it's soul crushing. Doom and darkness wins games, those Bulls are only going to win that combat by 1? Ok doom and darkness time, take a fear check at -3 if applicable and then if I do win by 1 take that break at -4.
Hashut is a horrible Lore, it's sketsophrenic, it has long range spells and then real short spells. It's close combat and then it's debuff and nuke. If you get 2 short and 2 long then really you only have 2 spells that your threatening to cast, your opponent t just saves dice for the one he fears and his scroll for the other etc your going to lose a entire magic phase that way and you can't afford that if it can be helped. With death they Want to stop it all, and the casting costs are low enough that they likely can't.
I've gotten used to no scroll, you learn to spread yourself out against purple Suns that's for sure lol. I think if your a serious tournament player your practise games should have no scroll. You learn a lot about the magic phase and how to react to it in the movement phase first. Think of it like training for a boxing match, you want to learn what you can do in bad situations, not the ideal situations so when those bad things happen you have already expirenced the and are familiar with the possible solutions even if they aren't that ideal.
My fireglaives do very little, they sometimes kill an eagle and then we all celebrate! People rightfully fear them in combat as that is a lot of strength 5 attacks and even tho it's initiative 2 that does mean it's at the same time as orcs, ogres and dwarfs. It's also before great weapons which has been key. My friend plays a peg heavy dark elf list and he no longer charges them into the glaives because they have from time to time killed or broken them.
Twisted Dwarf:
Realy nice result! I use to play 2x6 bull centaurs withs HW.I tried shields out but then your all defence and very little offence. When you go extra hand weapon your a hybrid unit as T5 and a 3+ is really good against shooting and magic missiles but you added more attacks. This often leads to situations where you take few wounds and dish out enough to force a break check or grind out their steadfast quicker. I want to take your models off, I'm willing to lose so,e of mine in order to do that.
Why CCW instead of HW? Do you think that shield would be interesting for the 2+ against shooting?
How do your fireglaives behaves? are they good enough for there point cost? do they work in the shooting phase?
I use to play blunderbuss but was often sad due to the very short range.
Do you really think that iron demon is better than 2 roquette launcher + Deamonsmith?
Why no hobgoblins khan on wolf?
What's your opinion on k'daai fireborn or even siege giant?
dromar
Fireglaives are good in swedish comp, so I use them. Hand weapon shield works too, but meh I like hybrid units in tournaments, you never know what your going to face.
Hobgoblins and khans basicaly come down to where would I get the points. I love the thought of khans on wolf, I really do. And every time my destroyer goes and runs the wrong way due to chaff I wish I had one. It all comes down to points.
I think fireborn are horrible because burning bright and T4 combined with 2 wounds means in a 6 turn game your going to kill 2 55 point models yourself. Yay! Not. Also with wood elves and all those magic arrows out there, leave them in the case.
The siege giant is too expensive but I am building one right now because I think he could be fun to play with and I keep telling myself I can find a way to make him work. That's the human ego for ya. ;-)
MeuhMeuuh:
How do you feel playing without scroll/chalice ?
This last one is so overpowered, I’d like to know why don’t you take it in a tournament list ! 
dromar:
You say that hashut is’nt balanced since it has differents range spell but have you been testing it with your flying prophet? i have played it a lot with a bale taurus lord and it always works well: hartred is super for uping cc units, ash storm is just awsome and others spell are nice too. But i do agree that if your sorcerer is on foot, it’s better to take an other lore.
Xander:
Super cool list. Well done.
Your miniatures look great, also!
Malorndk:
Have you ever considered trying a horde? It would probably suck, but then again, a month ago I would have told the entire world the 8 bulls in a unit without GWs made no sense, and you clearly proved me wrong on that 
What Formations do you guys run 7-8 Bulles? 42 or 33 or something else?
dromar:
Since you are quite a good gamer, what would you recomand for a competitive / tournament army list in 2500/600 pts?
I used to play monster circus like bale taurus/iron demon/6 bull centaurs /k’daai / apo but want to change with a new army
MeuhMeuuh:
I tried your list in ETC format against a vampire player.
I choosed death on the prophet because I feel like using all the choices I can given the restriction.
His list :
-Vamp lord on foot : destiny armor, ASF + redfury, Mighty blade, Lvl 4 vampire, shield
-Vamp on Winged nightmare : 4++, ensorceled shield, Lance, Dark majesty aura
-Banshee
3x25 Zombies
30 Ghouls
2x2 Fellbats
5 dogs
10 Crypt Horrors
Terrorgheist
Vargheist
Not your usual list I admit, felt not that hard.
I deployed the fireglaives in horde in the center with warmachines behind them. Centaurs on each flank and K’daai also. The K’daai didn’t do much, got chaffed and overall I played poorly (he killed zombies all game long). The GW centaurs killed the Vargheist in one turn, my opponent didn’t chaff them good enough to stop me charging him. The Dual wielding ones handled easily the crypt horror alone (a clutch big version of SoulBlight casted by the flying prophet helped a lot).
Shooting wise, the deathshrieker killed the terrorgheist in two turns, and hitted the ghouls ones. The fireglaives cleared the wolves and some more ghouls. They eventually got crushed in one turn by the ghouls and the vamp lord, who scored 10 kills alone.
My opponent gave up turn at the bottom of 6th, when the K’daai was in 18" range of his Lord + 10 ghouls, and all he had left was 2 units of zombies. All I had lost at this point was the fireglaives, the daemonsmith and a deathshrieker.
Big moment of the game : His flying vamp bouncing on a deathshrieker (2 wounds out of 3), and my general charging him in the rear the turn after, getting off soulblight in the magic phase. He dealt one wound but lost combat by enough to crumble into dust !
Very solid list in my oppinion, those 7 strong centaur units are really though and a very reliable point sink if the prophet is around. They’re also suprisingly good at handling some units. I felt like I played poorly but the list still worked out very well, even tho it was my first chaos dwarf battle (damn it feels good to have high movement units, and even better : magic ! )
Twisted Dwarf:
You say that hashut is'nt balanced since it has differents range spell but have you been testing it with your flying prophet? i have played it a lot with a bale taurus lord and it always works well: hartred is super for uping cc units, ash storm is just awsome and others spell are nice too. But i do agree that if your sorcerer is on foot, it's better to take an other lore.Funny, that was the original reason I put my prophet on a carpet in the first place, to try and get the most out of Hashut. Hatred is good but not even close to on the same level as soulblight for all the reasons I mentioned previously. Ashstorm is great for messing with units charging and particularly solo casters, but thats not enough compared with the tool box that you get with death. Also don't forget that Hashut has a virtually useless lore attribute compared to death, nothing better than getting a spirit leach off and then getting a dice or two back.
dromar
Twisted Dwarf:
Have you ever considered trying a horde? It would probably suck, but then again, a month ago I would have told the entire world the 8 bulls in a unit without GWs made no sense, and you clearly proved me wrong on that ;)I run run the bulls 4 wide and 2 deep
What Formations do you guys run 7-8 Bulles? 4*2 or 3*3 or something else?
Malorndk
I haven't tried a horde yet... I might in a funny humorous game, it would be crazy if they broke and got run down lol
Spencer:
I must say that I am a big fan of your list! I particulary like the orginal lists and yours is just incredible and work pretty well. You’re one of the first to identify the potential of the hashut bulls. Thanks for sharing us your experiment and I hope that you’ll continue to use that kind of list.
I do prefer the idea of playing an iron deamon rather than 2 deathstriker rockets because of the synergy between the iron deamon and the rest of the army. The ID can move with the army and his unbreakable ability could be pretty usefull in combat too.
I’ve just one question. In my country most of the turnaments are played Under ETC rules and I was wondering if this list works in ETC comp too. I assume with 100 pts less than in your list. What would you drop out?