Fallen246:
Alright, I’d normally check this myself but my brother is borrowing both my BRAND NEW O&G book and my rulebook.
Basically, I have 84 Orc Warriors, which I intended initially to assemble as roughly 40 with spears and shields, 20 with two hand weapons and another 20 with hand weapons and shields.
But, thinking about it, a unit of Orc Warriors with two hand weapons (3 ranks of 5, for example) compared to a unit with spears with the exact same set up would get the same number of attacks.
If both units were to lose 5 warriors from a charge though, the Orcs with two hand weapons would retain their attacks whereas the spear-Orcs would not.
What I’m curious about is, other than the armour save granted by being equipped with a shield, are spear Orcs essentially inferior to two-choppa equipped Orcs? Like, if they are attacked in the flank would dual-wielding Orcs get more attacks once again? I’m just curious to know if there is a circumstance where spears are better than two choppas?
I would check the book myself, but my brother has it…
Neil:
Spears will only get you the extra attacks if you are charged or are in a prolonged combat, plus they don’t work if your attacked from the flanks or rear. They will however get you that extra point of armour if you have taken shields.
Personally, I think as Orcs are generally used as an offensive unit I would either go hand weapon shield, or two hand weapons. I can’t really see that spears and shields are worth taking on Orcs, I think you are better off keeping them cheap and using the points you save elsewhere.
Thommy H:
Yeah, it’s a pay off, really. For example, the Orcs with additional hand weapons would lose two Attacks for each casualty, whereas your spear Orcs would reliably maintain the same number of Attacks for a longer period. Spears, in general, are the more reliable option for most armies - if you have a big block of infantry you don’t intend to move much, they work. In an all-Orc army, I can see their place, but if you’re using Orcs as your fighty units backed up by Goblins to hold the line, you might as well give them the extra hand weapons. Spears don’t work on the charge, after all.
furrie:
As I see it, they additional hand weapon orcs will lose there number of attacks as soon as an orc at the second rank gets killed and then its only one attack, when you look add the spear orcs they will lose attacks as soon as an orc at the 3rd rank gets killed. The spear orcs also only get the extra attack when they are already in combat or get charged, where the additional hand weapon gets it right away. The extra armour save when you have spear shield orcs only counts for wounds that arn’t being dealt in cc (iirc).
Thommy H:
The extra armour save when you have spear shield orcs only counts for wounds that arn't being dealt in cc (iirc).
No, they get their save in close combat too - spears aren't two handed weapons.
Baggronor:
Well, spears are a defensive weapon; they work best when charged. Are the Boyz going to be a defensive unit or a smacking unit? Personally I think Gobbos are better for spear-toting defensive units, as they are cheaper and hence more numerous and retain steadfast for longer. Orcs should be rushing forwards and breaking faces imo.
When it comes to losses, the double choppa orcs only begin to lose damage effectiveness when they start to lose the second rank (assuming not a horde), whereas spears start to lose out when the third rank begins dying. The spears only work when the unit gets charged, whereas double choppas always work. The +1 save from shields is the only plus point for the spear boyz, and its not really that amazing for troops who are already T4.
Double choppas for extra smackin’!
Fallen246:
So the general consensus for this is that Orcs should only use spears in the absence of spear-toting goblins? Preferably in what, horde formation or like, five wide, 5+ deep?
(I am pretty much building an all-orc army, and even if I don’t have a spear armed unit I’ll probably give a few spears still for my Mordheim warband that I’m going to have with the models).
EDIT: Actually, additional question: Since spears won’t work on the charge, would the Orcs count as having hand weapons and shields for that combat, and thus get the 6+ ward save? (This is in regards to the whole special weapons must be used over normal weapons ruling).
I know their attacks would still benefit from the Choppa rule, but yeah, just curious.
Bassman:
EDIT: Actually, additional question: Since spears won't work on the charge, would the Orcs count as having hand weapons and shields for that combat, and thus get the 6+ ward save? (This is in regards to the whole special weapons must be used over normal weapons ruling).
I know their attacks would still benefit from the Choppa rule, but yeah, just curious.
Fallen246
No, you have the bonus only if you actually use hand weapon and shield. A spear (even if does not have effect that turn) it's not an hand weapon.
I was wondering myself what was best, spear or double choppas.... after a few while (orcs think slow ;) ) I realized "Whay thew heck?!? Double choppas are way too cooler!!!!" :D