[Archive] Okay, this is quite different

Thommy H:

So, you may recall my earlier Chaos Warrior army, which I famously scavenged from my bitz box. Now I give you my second such force, this time some classic Bretonnians. Anyone who got into Warhammer during 5th Edition will recognise the core of this army as coming from the boxed game at that time �?" those models easily form the basis of a decent 1,000 point army with the addition of some characters and command groups, and that�?Ts what I�?Tve done here. I actually did these a couple of months ago but I only just got �?~round to doing the bases, so here they are

Nothing too complicated with these guys. The advantage of heraldry is that models can look pretty striking without any fancy highlighting or anything, so mostly I just did a couple of layers.

Les Défenseurs du Béniterre

Béniterre is a fair barony just north of Athel Loren. It is a land of craggy bluffs and deep forests, with many sacred glades, pools and springs, which attracts many Questing Knights seeking the Grail. Though part of the duchy of Quenelles, it is actually much closer to Parravon, which means that the barony has a fair amount of autonomy. It has been ruled over by a noble and just line of Barons for almost five hundred years, who were raised to nobility and given stewardship of the region when the previous Baron, Xavier, was stripped of his lands and title after killing three knights in the Mêlée event.

In the background of this shot is some terrain I�?Tve made. If you recognise the Bretonnians from the 5th Edition box set, you�?Tll also recognise what I modelled this terrain on �?" they�?Tre both based on the card buildings that came in that box.

Gaston, Chevalier de Graal, leading Les Chevaliers de la Ceinture

Gaston is the eldest son of the previous Baron, Luc, the golden child of the family. He won his spurs as a Knight Errant and then immediately embarked on his Grail Quest, relinquishing his claim on Béniterre. He retuned as a mighty Grail Knight and took up a hermitage in an old Grail Chapel on the border of Athel Loren. All this earned him the abiding hatred of the next eldest brother, David. David had always been jealous of Gaston, but intended to find a domain far away from Béniterre after becoming a Knight. However, Gaston�?Ts abdication meant he was expected to become the next Baron, and was therefore forced to remain in a Barony in which the people would always think of him as the second son. David could go on a Grail Quest of his own, but the truth is that he enjoys the good life too much �?" feasting, drinking and hunting. Gaston always rushes to the defence of Béniterre in times of peril, leading the army into battle, further adding to David�?Ts constant humiliation.

Gaston is a Paladin with the Grail Virtue, Grail Shield and the Virtue of Discipline. He�?Ts the one in the middle of the front rank. David is the unit�?Ts Gallant (champion) on his right. The story of the two brothers came about when I was painting heraldry �?" since there is only a finite number of combinations of metals (yellow and white) and colours (red, blue, black, green), there were always going to be few guys with the same heraldry. I decided early on that anyone with the same colours would come from the same family and this, combined with the fact that my general couldn�?Tt actually be the Baron (since he was a Grail Knight, and they usually become hermits unless they�?Tre Dukes or the King) just led naturally to the story of David and his jealously. This unit also contains the youngest brother, Guilliame (the one in white on the back right). If I�?Tm playing a small game that requires using David as a Paladin instead of Gaston, I�?Tll use Guillaime as the unit�?Ts Gallant.

Thiabault l’Immaculé leading Les Chevaliers de la Voile

Thiabault l’Immaculé was Gaston�?Ts companion on his Grail Quest �?" often Questing Knights will band together to seek the grail, and this was one such pairing. Gaston was injured in a battle with vile beastmen and Thiabault bore him away to a sacred glade. When the Lady appeared, Thiabault lifted Gaston up so he could sip from the Grail instead of himself. Since then, Thiabault has returned to Béniterre, where the Questing Knight hopes to earn the Lady�?Ts favour on the battlefield, serving Gaston as the Standard Bearer of his army. Riding alongside Thiabault is Anton, another of the Béniterre brothers (the third eldest), who rules his own domain and Francois, Luc�?Ts illegitimate son. Francois was raised as a commoner, but came to the castle claiming noble lineage. David offered him the opportunity to prove it by besting any of the trueborn Béniterre sons in combat, and it was Anton who stepped forward. Francois defeated him in a joust (knocking off one of the antlers of his crest) thus proving the truth of his words. He was acknowledged as one of the Béniterre brothers, albeit a baseborn one. Anton and Francois became fast friends and the two enjoy a good-natured rivalry with Anton leaving his crest damaged as a way of reminding Francois that, one day, he will get his own back.

The Questing Knight BSB in the middle is Thiabault obviously, and the guy in red and white with the missing antler is Anton. Francois is the one in black and white. The logic is that he took up his father�?Ts heraldry (quartered red and white, a modified version of which is worn by Gaston) but replaced the colour with black because he�?Ts a bastard. This gave Francois the nickname �?oMagpie�?�, which he then adopted as his crest. Anton is officially the unit�?Ts Gallant, but I sometimes use Francois instead.

Marcel le Doux

Marcel le Doux is a courageous and dashing Questing Knight from one of the Bretonnian colonies in the Border Princes left over from the Errantry War after the Crusades. The region is considerably harsher than Bretonnia, and its scrubby grass does not support mighty chargers. For that reason, Marcel does not have a horse. Walking around on foot, and also coming from such a harsh land where nobles and peasants must struggle side-by-side to survive gives him an unusually egalitarian attitude, an inspiration to the commoners of the army.

Marcel has the Virtue of Empathy so I can run him on foot and wears the Gromril Great Helm �?" the idea there is that his realm in the Border Princes is somewhere near Barak Var, so he�?Ts had dealings with the Dwarfs. The model is the Warhammer Quest Bretonnian Knight which I bought when they released those models in blisters (along with the Pit Fighter, Troll Slayer, Warrior Priest and maybe a couple of others).

Isabelle du Béniterre

Isabelle is David�?Ts daughter. Like all Bretonnian girls with magical talent, she was spirited away by the Lady at a young age and returned as a powerful enchantress years later. She promptly retired to the Grail Chapel with her uncle which she maintains diligently. Unsurprisingly, David took this personally too.

Isabelle is a Damsel of the Lady with the Prayer Icon of Quenelles (which I guess is that stick thing in her hand) and a dispel scroll.

Les Grand Non Lavé

The peasants of Béniterre are the usual downtrodden bunch, though David maintains a trained corps of longbowmen instead of men at arms rather than the usual peasant rabble. The bowmen are accompanied by David�?Ts minstrel, Claude, who extols them to feats of bravery with his inspiring lute-playing.

These are old, uniformed bowmen, hence the bit about them being trained. Claude is from hasslfree miniatures and I think he�?Ts just great. The banner is one of my representative ones, which actually works pretty well for this unit as they�?Tre not supposed to move (if they do, they lose their defensive stakes). The stakes are made from kebab skewers.

Gardes de Jeu

David�?Ts squires are very important, as they range ahead of him when he goes hunting. Despite his dependence on them to keep his domains nice and tidy, he has no hesitation about sending them into battle.

That�?Ts �?okeepers of game�?�, if you didn�?Tt know. As should have been obvious by now, I�?Tm not exactly a natural Francophone. It�?Ts schoolboy French and a bit of help from Babelfish. I don�?Tt think it matters that much �?" Old Bretonnian isn�?Tt exactly the same as French, I figure. These guys are my Marcel Delivery System (MSD): they act as ablative armour for him until he can get close enough to charge in and challenge someone. There would be more metal squire models, but some of them ran away to join a Mordheim Witch Hunter warband. Further evidence of my intentions to use Bretonnians as Mordheim figures can be seen in the leader, who�?Ts had his head replaced by that of an Empire militiaman (veterans may remember exactly this idea in White Dwarf 225, which had the first warband rules for Mordheim, before it was an official game).

So far these guys have done pretty well. Bretonnians are a good army for me �?" really fun to paint (I love heraldry: each knight is like a character) and require almost no tactical nuances. You just wait for the enemy to get close enough and then run at them. Then they fall over and die. Then I win. Yay.


Nice Thommy. I love those horses, the cloaks or whatnot are gorgeous to paint on! so much surface area. Given your skill, it would’ve been nice to see some detail work, but if it’s not a primary project you may not want to spend the time.

your back stories are really fun though. good work. :slight_smile:

Thommy H:

Nah, big strong blocks of colour are the way to go with Bretonnians! Actually, I’m just not good enough to cram them with detail - highlighting patterns is horrible, and I like to paint armies quickly.


First off, great looking army, especially the jongleur in the archers unit. However the french student in me just has to make a few corrections (now where’s my red pen :p)

Good french for the most part, although words likes ceinture are so vague that they could be interpreted as knights of the pants (trousers: British). If you’d like them to be Knights of the Sash, then you should add en tissu to ceinture …but this doesn’t sound too manly (not that french is terribly masculin), so maybe du blasen (emblem).

The great unwashed idiom is just la populace en francais, but that sounds boring, so perhaps la horde sale (unwashed horde), or les paysans sales (unwashed peasants). Either way, les (plural) and grand (sing.) do not mix well.

And lastly, your huntsmen are currently guarding a game (football, rugby, etc)… reassuring for the jousters, but not befitting their image. You can either choose les gardes-chasses (the gamekeepers) or les gardes du gibier (guards of the game).

Not having a go at you at all, but i just thought you might like it to be correct should you run into any french gamers :slight_smile: Could very well save you an earful.

If you want to be really anal, then look up some moyen francais (middle french) words as i think this would be the equivelent period.

Hope i didn’t bore the class too much. Your homework today is…

Kera foehunter:

OOOOOhhhho the colors! great job on them tommy h

Thommy H:

but i just thought you might like it to be correct
Not really. As I said, it's schoolboy French + Babelfish - I'm not actually trying to write in French, nor do I expect to run into any French gamers (and I doubt I'd show them my roster sheet anyway), just give the army a Bretonnian vibe with some Franglais names. If anything, a direct translation that an English person can puzzle out (like Les Grand Non Laves) is better because it means they'll get the joke. It's like 40K using dog Latin on their banners - "Angelis Mortis" is meaningless gibberish (I think...), but it looks like Latin for "Angels of Death". I know "Gardes de Jeu" doesn't mean the same thing as the English expression "gamekeepers"; it's just a joke.

Please comment on the army and background not the questionable French translation, which I made clear was rough and partly tongue-in-cheek anyway :P


alrite fella, no need to be so defensive. If you want knights of the pants then your perfectly entitled to it.

As i said before, great looking army though the Knight’s barding could use a little more decoration IMO


I agree with al-hashut. since you’re doing a french theme, maybe even a fleur-de-lis on the rear quarter panel (what is this Sojourn? a car? ya, I know…) or something. it might make it pop nicely :slight_smile: and I think you’re capable of THAT. :stuck_out_tongue:

Thommy H:

Only Questing Knights are supposed to display Fleur-de-Lys actually (as Thiabault and Marcel are doing). And it’s not so much a French theme as a Bretonnian theme - they’re only “French” in the way that The Empire is “German”: in other words, it’s not my theme, it’s sort of the official theme of the race.

zorn sabretooth:

nice job

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then make your knights go questing. Or just put a flower on them, like a rose. Traditional for Brits right? I dunno the actual lineage behind them.

just… SOMETHING! ahhhhh! make it pretty! please Thommy!? lol. it’s crying out “paint me!” lol

Thommy H:

Haha - a Questing Knight is something specific in Bretonnian armies. They have whole units of them as Special choices and you have to have at least one unit of Knights of the Realm anyway so if I turned them all into Questing Knights the army would be illegal!

The way things work for Bretonnian knights is they have blazons on their shields and crests on their helmets. They can represent either family lineages (like the King’s symbol is a lion, so all his relatives would have lions on their gear) or be based on whatever great deed they performed to go from Knights Errant to Knights of the Realm (like if they killed a dragon, they might put a dragon’s head on their helmet or have a dragon on their shield). Anyway the upshot of all this is that what symbols my Knights can carry around is set in stone (plastic?) by what’s on their helmets and shields since you can only justify two different things. The newer Bretonnian models have blank shields (and a shield shape so you can put a design on their barding) so you can have whatever designs you want.

And that’s why they don’t have flowers on their barding :slight_smile:


Or just put a flower on them, like a rose. Traditional for Brits right? I dunno the actual lineage behind them

Well the rose comes from the War of the Roses between the House of Lancaster (who had the red rose as their symbol) and the House of York (who had a white rose). The Lancastrians won this war and pinched the throne and we've NEVER let the Yorkshiremen forget it - that's why they're so surly. Anyway in a very charitable gesture Henry Tudor (Head of the house of Lancaster and now King Henry VII) took a bride from the house of York and combined the symbols of the two houses to form the Tudor Rose. To this day the county of Lancashire is represented by the red rose and yorkshire by a white rose. The two are still deadly rivals, and any sports match between them is known as a "roses" match.

A red rose in full bloom is a symbol of the English national Rugby team and is a symbol of England along with the cross of St. George and the three lions. It really isn't a British symbol and it would be unwise to refer to it as such to a Celt if you don't like Claymores.

On the actual subject of the thread Tommy, the army looks very good. Bretonians were one of my first armies after wood elves and I remember those models very well :cheers


I say Pants to the whole army…


Thommy H:

now King Henry VII
Do you know something the rest of us don't? ;)


Well personally I’d far prefer a Zombie Tudor to William or Harry

Thommy H:

Some updates. I’ve changed almost every unit in the army to some degree or other, and added a new one.

Chevaliers de la Ceinture

The main thing here is the new banner, which itself displays new heraldry for David. I made a mistake, in that I put a black symbol (a boar) over a red and white field - black and red are both colours, so that’s not allowed. However, if the blazon is in “natural” colours, then it’s okay. So now the boar is brown instead, which means it can happily overlap on the red without offending any medieval historians. They also have a new, jumbo-sized movement tray made using the modular movement tray kit.

Chevaliers de la Voile

Again with the new banner. This is the general, Gaston’s, personal standard, depicting his heraldry (sort of - I actually got the quarters the wrong way 'round!). This is why a mere Questing Knight has a banner with a Grail on it (and it hopefully appeases Sojourn’s lust for freehand ;)). I also repainted the guy at the back’s shield so there wasn’t blue on red, another violation of heraldric rules.

Le Garnison du Béniterre

David’s castle guards often accompany him in to battle alongside his bowmen. The unit is led by Phillipe, a veteran soldier of advanced years, and also features Brother Maurice, the monk of Shallya who keeps the shrine in the castle. Ordinarily, a man of the cloth wouldn’t take up arms, but Bretonnian knights care nothing for the petty religions of the smallfolk, so he is pressed into service alongside his congregation.

This is my new unit of men at arms. I avoided blazons on their shields (because they’re commoners) and tried to give them all the same helmets so they had a more uniform appearance like the bowmen. The sixteenth man from the box was built as a second musician, and he’ll replace Claude in the main Bowman unit if I ever feel the need to use this army in a GW store.

Gardes de Jeu

David’s loyal gamekeepers have attracted an unusual leader: he is none other than local folk hero Jules le Dépossédé, a distant descendent (or so he claims) of Baron Xavier, who was stripped of his lands and titles five hundred years ago. Jules styles himself as aristocracy in exile and, while he does have some of the bearing of nobility, his abilities in combat (which, as everyone knows, is the true measure of the ruling classes) are somewhat lacking. Jules is an outlaw, relentlessly pursued by David, but in times of war they sometimes put aside their differences so Jules can lend his skills at marksmanship to the squires. He’d better make himself scarce when the fighting stops though…

Jules is the Bertrand the Brigand model, of course. I got him cheap off ebay with one of his friends (see below).

Les Grand Non Lavé

Jules’s brother is Jacques le Boeuf, so-called because he has both the size and intellect of an ox. Like his brother, Jacques is a pretty good shot and a sort of celebrity with the peasants, so when Béniterre is in trouble he comes to the rescue and leads the main bowman regiment, who aren’t required to execute any complex manoeuvres under his dubious leadership. He also gets to enjoy Claude’s comical ditties.

My image of Jules and Jacques is not unlike that of Earl and Randy from “My Name is Earl”.

The 'ole lot:

This is the whole army as it stands now, pictured with my Bretonnian-themed terrain. Atop the tower is the spare musician, currently relegated to blowing warnings, I suppose.

Thommy H:

Biiiig update this time. If you don’t like Bretonnians and ridiculous amounts of backstory for little plastic men, click away.

Chevaliers du Taureau

These Knights of the Realm are the retinue of Sir Gerrard le Taureau, who is the maternal cousin of the Béniterre brothers. He has his own domain near the edge of the barony, meaning that he and his knights are only called to the defence of Béniterre in times of dire need. Gerrard is a massive, unpleasant man who well suits his nickname - ‘The Bull’. He eats and drinks to excess, regularly takes his pleasure with the peasant women of his domain (fathering dozens of bastards in the process) and fights with bestial savagery. David finds him a useful ally, but even he will only call upon The Bull when absolutely necessary.

I got these fellas on ebay. There was supposed to be nine, but one of the horses didn’t have a head, so I’ve had to make do with eight. I plan to get a mounted sorceress to put in the unit anyway. The command group are all slightly converted - the standard bearer and Gerrard have hands from the Chaos Marauder kit, while the musician uses some spare Men at Arms parts. I’m not overly happy with the banner - it looks too cartoony. Serves me right for picking a bull’s head as heraldry. By the way, any resemblance to the Father of Darkness is, of course, coincedental.

Torches et Fourches

According to the folklore of Béniterre, when the old baron Xavier was exiled, he returned to his castle and refused to leave. A young boy from the village named Charles took it upon himself to eject the corrupt knight himself, and stormed the fortress single-handedly. He defeated Xavier and sent him fleeing across the mountains. When the Duke of Quenelles heard of this feat, he made the boy the new Baron of Béniterre, and his line has ruled ever since. This story - while pleasing for the common-folk - is not supported by the records held by the nobility. Instead, they say that Charles was a Knight Errant from the Duke’s own household who was granted the barony upon completing his errand of knighthood and took possession of it without incident. Whatever the situation of his accession, Charles was undoubtedly a noble and just ruler, and eventually went on the Grail Quest, whereupon he relinquished the barony to his eldest son. He built a grail chapel in the forest with his own hands when he became a Grail Knight and remained a hermit, only returning to Béniterre in times of great need. When he died, he was entombed with great ceremony in the castle grounds. Now, his tomb is a place of pilgrimage in the region, attracting virtuous peasants from all the neighbouring baronies. When Béniterre is under attack, townsfolk gather with the crazed pilgrims and the local grail monks around the tomb in order to mount an ad hoc defence of their homes.

This would be how you make Battle Pilgrims on a budget. This unit combines the Empire Flagellant and Bretonnian Men at Arms kits, an idea I got from a project log on Warseer. They work together pretty well: wile the Men at Arms heads don’t fit very well on the Flagellant bodies, the Flagellant heads look great on the Men at Arms bodies, producing some real ruffians. The idea here is that these are a mixture of pilgrims (the guys who look like jesters) and the kind of scum that the Baron won’t have in his garrison: men who are too old to fight (eg. the guys with grey beards), too disreputable (the thug-looking ones), debtors (the guys in the stocks) and those with disabilities that make them unable to fight (the blind guy). They have hand-me-down weapons and uniforms from previous generations, hence the mismatched shields. The tomb itself (which serves as a Grail Reliquae) is from Heroquest and was bigger than I thought it was going to be, so I couldn’t put any other guys on its base. It’s therefore not clear why it has four attacks since it’s an inanimate object, but I do have an excuse:

Samuel l’Escargot

Sammy Snail is a Snail Hero. He has three attacks, like all Heroes.

The Trebuchet

David has splashed out on an expensive piece of artillery: the feared Filed Trebuchet. He hired an artisan from distant Couronne to build the device, but he has to rely on his own peasants to crew it otherwise.

This model is really, really hard to assemble. I’m not buying another one. Absolute nightmare. Looks pretty good in the end though.

Les Défenseurs du Béniterre

The whole army as it currently stands. I’m on the cusp of 2,000 points now. I’ve ordered Jules le Jongleur and a mounted Damsel from GW which will give me another wizard and, with Jules and four spare guys from the Men at Arms kit to bulk out the Men at Arms unit and Gaston upgraded to a Lord Robert tu es l’oncle, the army’s “finished”.



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Kera foehunter:

looks great tommy you have some nice colors