I just finished painting the army I am bringing to OwlCon, a small Houston tourney at Rice University. I have been modifying the list slightly after my play-testing games with friends. I think I finally settled on the list below. It is not the most optimal list, but I have a good feel for the army and I have had moderate success so far. I have no plans to win the tourney, just roll dice and maybe have a beer. If you would like to see the army I am bringing, I posted some imgur albums in the showcase forum.
First of all- cool paintjob! Really like your style.
To the List:
Hand the chalice over to the Daemonsmith. He will be hiding out of sight the whole game anywsy, getting a 2+ look out sir on top due to the warmachines. For the free points, buy your sorcerer lord the flying carpet. Stay close to the wm at the beginbing to provide rerolls and get the 2+ look out sir, fly among the regiments and spread fear with 2xd6 s6 hits in the later game… or you take death over hashut and be more agressive versus single targets like wm, monsters and characters, as your list already has heavy crowd and armored target control due to the double magmacannons… don’t put him in the 28 men block together with the bsb, as it will be target number 2 for any wm or spell right after the destroyer…
For the wolf riders i’d rather take a second khan as he is smaller and more flexiblr exploiting gaps or such things AND he doesn’t hace to do LD checks if he loses a wound.
Equip the khan with dragonhelm. No Shield, as he loses vanguard move. This eay he can block out flaming attack units (even survive shooty ones). And est through wm or redirect and regroup and move easily.
You forgot to note your special git the iron demon in. You can only see it due to the points. Id with hellbound. Good choice.
Indernals with glaive… hm noooope, better take one more hw/s infernsl for the Main block and get hobgobbos instead. But they won’t be the reason for winning or loosing the game.
First of all- cool paintjob! Really like your style.
To the List:
Hand the chalice over to the Daemonsmith. He will be hiding out of sight the whole game anywsy, getting a 2+ look out sir on top due to the warmachines. For the free points, buy your sorcerer lord the flying carpet. Stay close to the wm at the beginbing to provide rerolls and get the 2+ look out sir, fly among the regiments and spread fear with 2xd6 s6 hits in the later game.. or you take death over hashut and be more agressive versus single targets like wm, monsters and characters, as your list already has heavy crowd and armored target control due to the double magmacannons.. don't put him in the 28 men block together with the bsb, as it will be target number 2 for any wm or spell right after the destroyer..
For the wolf riders i'd rather take a second khan as he is smaller and more flexiblr exploiting gaps or such things AND he doesn't hace to do LD checks if he loses a wound.
Equip the khan with dragonhelm. No Shield, as he loses vanguard move. This eay he can block out flaming attack units (even survive shooty ones). And est through wm or redirect and regroup and move easily.
You forgot to note your special git the iron demon in. You can only see it due to the points. Id with hellbound. Good choice.
Indernals with glaive.. hm noooope, better take one more hw/s infernsl for the Main block and get hobgobbos instead. But they won't be the reason for winning or loosing the game. ;)
Norngahl
Hello,
First, thanks for all the compliments and the very interesting ideas for the army. I have never thought to put my general on the flying carpet but I could see how he could be a real terror for a lot of armies out there. With the tournament that I'm going to there is likely going to be a lot of scenarios that are going to require me to move forward to obtain objectives so I'm not likely going to be able to use a castling position. Several spells in the lore of Hashut are fairly short ranged so he needs to move up a little bit. Outside of the tournament, I am going to try the flying carpet on my friends and give them some new looks for my army.
I do have a rules question for you regarding the hobgoblin khan. The hobgoblin wolf riders unit states they have the special rules fast calvary. The hobgoblin khan does not have that special rule under his entry. It would seem because of this that the hobgoblin khan does not have the fast cavalry special rule and would not benefit from a Vanguard move. I gave him a shield to bump his armor save up to 4+ just for this reason. If there is some FAQ out there which explains that he would be eligible for the fast cavalry special rule, then I would love to know. Also I gave the hobgoblin khan a magic weapon so he may be able to deal with ethereal chaff units.
The fireglaives hang back and present a threat to fast cavalry and other war machine hunters. You are right that there is likely a better place for those points. Excellent ideas and a really cool suggestion with the general. Many thanks! :hat off
Check the Tamurkhan FAQ on Forgeworld under Downloads and you’ll find Khans have vanguard.
Carpet-Sorc with Hashut is awesome, master playing it and you have the Fantasy version of a Chess Queen. Remember to make flying march-moves within 8" and work around front arcs and mind overruns and he’s usually fine. I build carpet, T. of Pres. and Enchanted Shield.
Check the Tamurkhan FAQ on Forgeworld under Downloads and you'll find Khans have vanguard.
Carpet-Sorc with Hashut is awesome, master playing it and you have the Fantasy version of a Chess Queen. Remember to make flying march-moves within 8" and work around front arcs and mind overruns and he's usually fine. I build carpet, T. of Pres. and Enchanted Shield.
Good luck!
MadHatter
Awesome! I have been using the FAQ rules for the K'Daai and everything else, but I didn't see the very last entry. He is losing his shield and someone is getting a pistol I guess. Thanks for the guidance. It is much appreciated.
I love your list. Almost identical to what I would run at this point value.
Only comments from me otherwise have been pointed out:
Drop Khans shield to remain fast cavalry.
Take another Khan over the Raiders.
Chalice on smith.
Flying Carpet is awesome on the prophet. But it takes practice to master it. Otherwise I would go for the Eartning Rod - as miscast on a 400 point general (500 VPs worth) is terrible. And a dispel scroll - the chalice will dominate most magic. But that turn 1 game breaking spell cannot always be stopped without scrolls.
Magma Cannon - you cannot miss if you place your shot 9,5 inches away from enemy units.
I want to run an updated list by you all. I was advised that a Flying Carpet lord was a change I could make to create a stronger list. I was hesitant at first, mainly because I would want the model to look like it could fly, as well as some tactical issues. Well I think I solved the first concern by creating a jet pack for one of my unpainted (now painted) daemonsmiths. Have a look at the list and then scroll down for a look at the model. Thanks.
Try the flying prophet with hashut and death and pick the lore you prefer after testing.
I would give lore of death to the daemonsmith: bettre chance to deal with armoured monster and charcaters than fireball.
I do love your k'daai conversion, it's simple and efficient! Where did you find the head?
Don't forget to give some battle reports!
dromar
I got the head from a company called Raging Heroes which is actually based out of France :D It is the Evil Shedu head. Fair warning, the back of the head is bare, so you will have to mold some hair or maybe add a big hat! I may switch the lore on the level 1, but I typically can't cast any of the short range lore of death spells until much later in the game. I like fireball with him because it's cheap casting and adjustable range. I will definitely post pics from the upcoming tourney.
I want to run an updated list by you all. I was advised that a Flying Carpet lord was a change I could make to create a stronger list. I was hesitant at first, mainly because I would want the model to look like it could fly, as well as some tactical issues. Well I think I solved the first concern by creating a jet pack for one of my unpainted (now painted) daemonsmiths. Have a look at the list and then scroll down for a look at the model. Thanks.
2500 Chaos Dwarfs
Characters: 835
Sorcerer-Prophet
Lvl 4 (Lore of Hashut)
Enchanted Shield
Arabyan Carpet
Talisman of Protection
Daemonsmith Sorcerer
Lvl 1 (Lore of Fire)
Chalice of Blood and Darkness
Infernal Castellan
BSB
Shield
Dawn Stone
Dragonhelm
Iron Curse Icon
Hobgoblin Khan
Light Armor
Tormentor Sword
Giant Wolf
Hobgoblin Khan
Light Armor
Warrior Bane
Giant Wolf
Core: 639
29 Infernal Guard
Full Command
Razor Standard
12 Infernal Guard
Fireglaives
Musician
Special: 700
Magma Cannon
Magma Cannon
Deathshrieker Rocket
Iron Daemon
Hellbound
Rare: 325
K'Daai Destroyer
Total 2499
Daemonsmith Unpainted:
Painted!
TheLazySamurai
Good list! Nice conversion idea :hat off
Two things:
I see both of the khans have magic weapons to deal with etherals.. well.. all etherals I know will kill them in a single round of combat maybe two, while even with magic weapon the khan has little chance to deal death to them.. i'd stick with spears to rip through wm as fast as possible. Let the iron daemon cannon finish etherals off.. and don't forget you have a flying sorcerer lord with magic weapon as well. And he does fairly well on single etheral targets ;)
I know everyone loooves as bsb.. but.. cds are one of the few armies that don't need them and who are too expensive for what they do. You are better off with 5pt gleaming pennant in mist situations. With dual magmas and a shrieker you will decrease enemies ranks with ease, meaning you will have steadfest on your site. So no need for stubborn. With flying carpet lord at the front you have mobile ld10. With one way ld reroll you will handle almost any situation. How often do you have to take ld checks per game and how often will your unit fail them more than once?! Happens almost never On top of that no damage output and additional victory points. With the saved points you can buy a small unit of three bull centaures with grest weapons or boost your IG Fireglaives or get a big unit of hobgoblins. Or boost your Deathshrieker to a hellcannon. Just think about that possibility :)
-my bsb kept my infernal guard from running after failing a LD test on multiple occasions.
I don’t know about you guys, maybe you get your dice from a different company or something, but I am constantly rolling high on leadership tests usually failing my LD9/10 tests at least once a battle in very high importance situations. Such as after I just got clobbered by an ogrestar, hit in the face by chaos warriors, etc. Yes a gleaming pennent is a poor mans bsb, but that item is much more useful on a unit of Bullcentaurs. For infernal guard getting stuck in the grind, they are going to be taking leadership tests over and over why take the chance? Every time you actually make use of your bsb’s reroll you can usually figure he just saved anywhere between 100-500 points.
Warmachines are cool but what happens with random deployment scenarios? Or scenarios where warmachine line of sight is messed up, or all the other odd situations that a proper tournament scenario will throw at you to mess up your thin them out before they get to us plans.
- My bsb has gotten my army the draw to save me from a major loss, and has given me victories and major victories.
Infernal guard suck. Infernal guard really suck, and when thrown into the grind as stated above they just don’t win from damage they need static. What Infernal guard do well is fight on to the last man, but only when the bsb is present with his mighty stubborn. What we are waiting for, or what I have had happen to me on many an occasion. For example, my infernal guard get hit by a seriously strong unit and get reduced down to maybe 5 or 8 dwarves. Things look bad, but then my opponent has a shit time rolling to hit and then failing his to wound rolls. I do no wounds in return, but I have my bsb. Boom I win combat by 1. He then takes a test a LD test and gets run down. Does it happen all the time? No. But when it does happen it turns a major loss into a victory or major victory. In a tournament that can be the difference of being in 1st/2nd/3rd place or in the no one cares middle of the group.
- The infernal Castellen bsb is unmovable.
There I said it, with a 2+/4++ and t5 this guy is probably not going anywhere, and has the potential to keep a unit locked in combat for 2–3 turns by himself.
- The infernal castellen, is not over priced since the stubborn crown magic item is already costed at 35 points, and Infernal Guard are much much better with being stubborn in terms of not giving up their points and surviving the grind.
Finally, LoA armies that have won without bsbs should not be considered the norm for all comers enviroments.
tl;dr Warhammer 8th ed. is the greatest game at being totally random and unpredictable. Your army must be ready to deal with that. Getting re-rolls and stubborn on LD tests mitigates the impacts of the randomly bad situations 8th ed. throws at us. For your particular army, keep the bsb and if you want the khans to deal with etherals give them 3+ armor saves. You do not need the chalice to win games, a dispel and a level 4 is usually enough. Give the prophet a charmed shield to catch a cannon ball with.
Wow, you made quite a case to keep the BSB. Mine isn’t going anywhere.
I too have some big misses with leadership tests so I need him for sure, especially if I am going to have my LD 10 general flying away from my battle line. I understand your stance towards the chalice, but it makes a huge difference in my games and I don’t use it in the way that leads to opponents trying to punch you (between casting and dispelling).
-my bsb kept my infernal guard from running after failing a LD test on multiple occasions.
I don't know about you guys, maybe you get your dice from a different company or something, but I am constantly rolling high on leadership tests usually failing my LD9/10 tests at least once a battle in very high importance situations. Such as after I just got clobbered by an ogrestar, hit in the face by chaos warriors, etc. Yes a gleaming pennent is a poor mans bsb, but that item is much more useful on a unit of Bullcentaurs. For infernal guard getting stuck in the grind, they are going to be taking leadership tests over and over why take the chance? Every time you actually make use of your bsb's reroll you can usually figure he just saved anywhere between 100-500 points.
Warmachines are cool but what happens with random deployment scenarios? Or scenarios where warmachine line of sight is messed up, or all the other odd situations that a proper tournament scenario will throw at you to mess up your thin them out before they get to us plans.
- My bsb has gotten my army the draw to save me from a major loss, and has given me victories and major victories.
Infernal guard suck. Infernal guard really suck, and when thrown into the grind as stated above they just don't win from damage they need static. What Infernal guard do well is fight on to the last man, but only when the bsb is present with his mighty stubborn. What we are waiting for, or what I have had happen to me on many an occasion. For example, my infernal guard get hit by a seriously strong unit and get reduced down to maybe 5 or 8 dwarves. Things look bad, but then my opponent has a shit time rolling to hit and then failing his to wound rolls. I do no wounds in return, but I have my bsb. Boom I win combat by 1. He then takes a test a LD test and gets run down. Does it happen all the time? No. But when it does happen it turns a major loss into a victory or major victory. In a tournament that can be the difference of being in 1st/2nd/3rd place or in the no one cares middle of the group.
- The infernal Castellen bsb is unmovable.
There I said it, with a 2+/4++ and t5 this guy is probably not going anywhere, and has the potential to keep a unit locked in combat for 2--3 turns by himself.
- The infernal castellen, is not over priced since the stubborn crown magic item is already costed at 35 points, and Infernal Guard are much much better with being stubborn in terms of not giving up their points and surviving the grind.
Finally, LoA armies that have won without bsbs should not be considered the norm for all comers enviroments.
tl;dr Warhammer 8th ed. is the greatest game at being totally random and unpredictable. Your army must be ready to deal with that. Getting re-rolls and stubborn on LD tests mitigates the impacts of the randomly bad situations 8th ed. throws at us. For your particular army, keep the bsb and if you want the khans to deal with etherals give them 3+ armor saves. You do not need the chalice to win games, a dispel and a level 4 is usually enough. Give the prophet a charmed shield to catch a cannon ball with.
sam585
I advice Rackhams dices, they usually bring vengeance to warhammer :D
First thing, always bring the chalice, always play it as intended. Its basically a free spell at the end of your magic phase. If you want to win, use the few usefull stuff we have.
Second.. you can debate about a charmed shield for the sorcerer lord on carpet, but a 2+/4+ look out sir and 4++ AND small base AND perfect LOS hiding is way enough, especially when you field the destroyer/iron demon combo. Better boost his save to 2+, he gets more out of it in almost any situation.
I rarely make it into critical combat with my IG, mainly because the game is often won before they reach enemy lines.. redirecting and ashstorm are wms best friends while the rest gets eaten by the destroyer or iron demon.. or sucked by 2d6 s6 hits from the prophet.
My IG usually has to deal with rests of regiments.. even if they face good units, they do a great tar pit job on their own until I smack the combat with various units from all sides.. when your list really NEEDS an BSB you are often a bit immobile and to "all eggs ibto one basket" focussed in my experience.
I think armies win this game, not characters (except sorcerers).. because everything is expensive, i try to save some points on heroes. And I usually play rather mobile msu (for cds) than going big. But would be nice to see your list!
And of course samurai, keep the bsb if you want to, just wanted to open your mind for this possibility which I had great success with :hat off
