What makes Star Wars Episode V: Empire Strikes Back so good? The revelation at the end and the constant setbacks for the heroes are a given, but is there any reason as to why Episode V seem to be constantly held up by layman critics as the best Star Wars film?
I’ve got a hard time to fathom this, since that particular movie always struck me as the weakest of the original trilogy, no matter how well it may advance the plot and present news sights on the screen.
The reason I’m asking about a 30 year old film classic follows: I’m pretty much alone both here and among my friends in liking the Hobbit movies (not everything about them, naturally since many flaws are obvious, and anyway I’ve always appreciated fictive worldbuilding as much as, or even more than, the story itself). This raises some questions as to what makes up a succesful and widely liked movie, or indeed story in any format, and what I’m missing. My assessment of movie and book quality usually lands close to the general opinion of viewers and readers, but not always. Having always been one interested in stories, this makes me curious as to what else than personal taste makes people like or dislike certain movies. Perhaps there is something to learn from this, for future story writing of one’s own.
So, do you think Empire Strikes Back is the best Star Wars movie, and if so, why?
Hmm, I’m not sure, been a while since I watched any of them so can’t recall which I think is the best (other than its not one of the prequels lol).
I think ESB his held up as the best by critics because it is the darkest of the OT and maybe they regard that as being the most mature for some reason. They may also see it as superior to ANH because of the improvements in the battle scenes - compare the visuals of Hoth and the asteroid chase to the attack on the Death Star and the Falcon’s escape from the Death Star, and the Vader vs Kenobi fight to the Vader vs Luke fight. It also introduces us to Yoda who is one of the more distinctive characters in the series. They may see it as superior to RotJ because the latter has Ewoks - it’s hard to get behind the stormtroopers getting defeated by Stone Age teddy bears (if they’d stuck with the original idea of enslaved wookiees rising up it’d probably be a different story).
A convincing argument. Having enslaved Wookies instead of Ewoks would also have taken away some of the twisted morality of Star Wars, where it’s all fine to manipulate native peoples, who lives as peaceful neighbours close to an Imperial installation, into attacking a military and technologically superior force and give their lives for strangers willing to exploit the natives’ religious beliefs for their own ends - so long as you’re the good guys.
I personally find RoTJ to be the best part of the original trilogy, in spite of the Ewoks.
RotJ gave us the Rancor fight, Boba Fett getting to actually do something (even if he does get taken out easily), Emperor getting to do something, and the attack on the second Death Star so it’s definitely got a lot of nice stuff to offer, but I think most critics can’t get passed the Ewoks ‘kiddyfying’ it
As a movie ESB just works better. The pacing is good, the action isn’t too much, the characters evolve and develop well. There is more emotion, more meaningful dialogue. It helps that ANH set everything up for them to do such a good film. ROTJ has too much action, too much silliness, no character advancement at all. Sadly, these things are taken to the extreme in the prequels, where all the character advancement happens between the movies (except for Anakin’s confusing fall to the dark side, which is handled horribly).
I’ve been fortunate to work at ILM with some of the Star Wars guys there, I’ve been to Skywalker ranch a few times and bumped into George there too. I think because George took a back seat on ESB, and served as Executive producer, he was able to put his talents where best used and allow a seasoned director (Irvin Kershner) to take the helm as it were and concentrate on the story telling and whatnot, which is what gives it more of that slick professional feel compared to the 1st which feels slightly indy. The 3rd movie RoTJ was less slick as Lucas found a less seasoned Director who would be more of a puppet that he could influence easily and push his ideas through without any resistance so has less of a strong directorship because of that.
Thanks for good responses, everyone! That explains everything to me. And thanks in particular to the insights provided by Doombeard. Thanks for the tip!
The new Star Wars movie got me a bee in my bonnet about episode 1, and why it is a bad movie. To put it simply, it is stuffed full of things happening, many of which don’t even need to be there. So I wrote this.
This is how to fix the Phantom Menace plot with only what we already have. The cuts (which are only of entire scenes) help the flow of the movie, which is jammed with pointless special effects and action sequences that add nothing.
First, get hold of a copy of the movie in a weird foreign language. Then subtitle it for the following plot:
Rename the movie to something that makes more sense - Rise of the Sith,
*Cut: everything on the space ships.
The two Jedi arrive on the surface of Naboo to rescue Princess Amidala and her family, who have been captured by separatists led by Gunray. They meet Jar Jar, who offers to help them since his home and livelihood was destroyed by separatists and he has nowhere to go. The separatists are encouraged by Sidious to break away from the Republic, and Naboo has a huge power source that they can use.
[Why this is better: It’s not clear why they try to kill Jedi who are there to negotiate taxes, other than being scared idiots]
*Cut: all the underwater scenes and Gungans
They arrive at the palace, rescue Amidala, ship gets damaged in the escape. They stop at Tattooine. The real Amidalla is revealed. Qui-Gon buys equipment to repair the ship, then uses a dice game to gamble with Watto for Annakin, who has been repairing a protocol droid, and wins.
*Cut: the pod race
[Why this is better: Qui-Gon cheats Watto out of everything, really just betting on the pod race unfairly. I can see him having no qualms with cheating someone for a slave, but not physical goods. The pod race is pointless and goes on forever]
Everyone is on Coruscant. Amidala requests the senate kick out the separatists, who don’t act with as much help as she wants. No confidence vote for the ruler. Palpatine offers to pull some strings to get stuff done under the radar.
The Jedi council allow Anakin to train under Qui-Gon, then sends them back to Naboo to capture Gunray but not do anything else.
They go back, rescue people, and capture Gunray. Darth Maul fight scene, Qui-Gon dies. The separatist ship gets blown up, they are defeated.
*Cut: The huge land battle scene, and leave out Annakin doing any flying then accidentally saving the day.
[Why this is better: There are four things going on simultaneously, two of which are merely action sequences that don’t advance plot or characters in a useful way, cuts them down to two]
Palpatine is elected. Obi-wan is now a Jedi Knight and becomes Annakin’s master.
[Why this whole movie is better: The Gungans don’t add anything to the story other than provide meat-fodder for the big battle, which is ended by blowing up the droid ship anyway. Palpatine has nothing to gain from a simple blockade and tax dispute, so it’s unclear what his motives are in the original movie. In the end, the conflict is brought to light by Amidala and used by Palpatine to gain power, but it would be much better if he caused it all directly and intentionally, even if Amidala’s escape wasn’t part of the plan. The action scenes are mostly left at the end of the movie rather than scattered everywhere]
After writing all that, if you want the prequels to be about Anakin, then the whole movie is pointless. All we learn about him is how he stopped being a slave and that he is good with the force. It’s a thirty second conversation. It could be quick flashback to Qui-Gon cheating Watto with the chance cube if you really want to show it. TPM introduces Obi-Wan and Amidala, and gives them more backstory, but everything you need to know about them is covered in the next movie anyway.
If you actually want TPM to actually be a good movie you’d need to add the following (which will never happen):
Qui-Gon meets Anakin before everything occurs on Naboo, then goes back and gets him later.
Obi-wan thinks it is a bad idea. (Obi-wan should be the main character in all the prequels)
After been taken away, Anakin struggles to get over the fact that he can’t see his mum again.
Anakin intentionally disobeys the order to stay safe and intentionally blows up the droid ship because he wants to help and then flee.
He tries to go and rescue his mum, but is stopped by Obi-wan who over-reacts and makes Anakin angry. Scary usage of the force breaks stuff everywhere, Qui-Gon calms him. Anakin is upset that he hurt Amidala.
The Jedi council realises that if Anakin isn’t trained then he will be a big problem for them, so allows it.
Obi-wan decides to take a different tack when training Anakin.
