Nicodemus:
This is a brief snippet from the Dreadquake Mortar with Underwhelming Ogre thread:
Does anyone know what the intention is with the rules - is the idea that we can use the Tamurkhan rules mixed and matched the Ravening Hordes list, or only use the Tamurkhan rules?
Nicodemus
Why would they expect anyone to use Ravening Hordes? The Tamurkhan book has a full army list. In the meantime, you can use these rules with Warriors of Chaos, like it says.
Thommy H
I think the point is that they aren’t ‘expecting’ anything. I did some digging and made some phone calls after posting the initial message. Here’s the response from Tris over at Forge World (copy & pasted):
"The experimental list we have produced is not meant as a
‘catch-all’ Chaos Dwarf list, rather it is a list that represents one
lords domain. As such it does not replace any existing list."The fact that the Tamurkhan CD list doesn’t replace any existing list, to my mind, means the Ravening Hordes list still stands, with the caveat that there are many more notes that should be included in the Errata document regarding where the new points cost and rules for models is located. Yes, I realize that Tris referred to ‘experimental’, however it’s also true that when the Tamurkhan book is published the CD list will still only represent one faction/domain of Chaos Dwarfs.
I also spoke with a GW rep last week and his take on it was that we as a comminuty should just continue to do what we’re doing as we are the driving force behind this movement. It’s probably also going to be up to us to get on the ball and start compiling some things for an eventual FAQ - GW isn’t going to release one, and while Forge World likely will (a la Death Korps) it’s probably going to be further down the road and of lower priority. If we kick start some of the things that should go into the FAQ that will help the whole community. Tris also went on to say:
"Any existing FAQ regarding special rules and their interaction with Chaos Dwarves are still applicable."What does the rest of the community think about the possibility of pushing the Ravening Hordes Chaos Dwarfs Errata document further to encompass all of the changes and updates from SoM and Tamurkhan? For example, Hobgoblin infantry and Wolfriders might now be replaced with a note to see the Tamurkhan book, while the Great Taurus and Lammasu would refer players to the Storm of magic book, etc.
~N
P.S. Slightly off-topic, but still related, has anyone given thought to creating a Storm of Magic Erratum for Chaos Dwarfs, possibly with some SoM Lore of Hashut spells?
cornixt:
To put it simply, yes, the new list is not a full Chaos Dwarf army list, just one for the eastern fringe of the CD empire. Most likely this is so that GW can create a proper CD army list themselves without destroying the FW list.
The errata that we created was to enable the RH list to continue to be used, so while we will use the FW list as precedent and rules guidance we won’t be advocating wholesale replacement of any unit or rules unless they represent a significant step forwards (I can only think of the Blunderbuss rules and the grey area around HG fast cavalry). I don’t want to say I speak for everyone, so other members of the errata team can say if they disagree. The Lammasu and Taurus rules are more of a sideways step IMO so would not be used in the RH list.
To summarise, the RH list will remain as it is, the errata may be tweaked a bit (but not much), and the FW list will be a nice alternative list to use (and probably more acceptable for most players, being newer and properly published)
Thommy H:
I never said RH was irrelevant full-stop - you’re quoting me out of context. I was actually saying that the RH rules were irrelevant for the new WF experimental rules because they will eventually be published as part of a full list.
Nicodemus:
My reason for brining this up is because there’s still a lot of models/units in the RH list that aren’t useable as part of the full list that will be in the Tamurkhan book.
I never said RH was irrelevant full-stop - you’re quoting me out of context. I was actually saying that the RH rules were irrelevant for the new WF experimental rules because they will eventually be published as part of a full list.
Thommy H
Don’t worry ThommyH, I would never accuse you of being wrong. But what you said was with regards to the Tamurkhan book, not any experimental rules. The point still stands though that the CD list in the Tamurkhan book doesn’t replace the Ravening Hordes list in any way, and my point is how to reconcile combining the two and not playing them as something resebling two separate armies of the same race.
~N
Loki:
Also we are likely to face problems with the list being from forge world i know of a few tournaments that don�?Tt allow forge world army list and i imagine this will be the same for Warhammer Forge lists , so the RH list will still be very relevant in these circumstances, and its still the official GW one as well
nilbog:
At the moment I’m playing the RH list and adding units in from FWs experimental rules e.g. infernal guard, as the RH list doesn’t have an elite infantry. Working ok so far, with no complaints. My group and I will have to decide whether to use the new warmachine rules (earthshaker gets worse, which will please them, but lets me use a magma cannon, which probably won’t). I’ve no intention of attending any tournaments, so that aspect doesn’t really apply to me.
zhatan87:
I’m going to present what is done in France :
Firstly, it seems that RH list and FW list are very differents. Thus, people think that both lists can be played separately.
On the CDO errata : we have produced in France our own errata, played in every tournaments which allow RH list (many of them).
As I was the initiator of the project, and I think that it was time for CD players to take charge of them, as GW won’t do anything on the RH list, we made one errata in two parts.
The part one is 100% made with official references, and with GW justifications or similarities with other army errata for every changes. Thus, the part one is very close to the CDO errata.
The part two is an idea I got, followed by some players. It is optional and unofficial, and requires the agreement of the opponent. It introduces the hellcannon entry in RH list : 0-1 hellcannon in rare, or “no fear for BC induced by flaming attack”. It covers some interactions with new armies by community consensus, such as for storm banner and blunderbusses, and questions that was frequently asked by past.
Thus, we have many tournaments which allow only part one, and some which allow both of them. For CD players who play in friendly game, they have a support to help them make some changes allowed (such as hellcannon).
about the possibility of pushing the Ravening Hordes Chaos Dwarfs Errata document
I think that the CDO members should push the RH CDO errata, but not in that direction. FW tools are too differents to RH list.
But CDO members could make a further errata to match with the hellcannon entry, sneaky gits rules, new interactions since RH publication, etc…
I’m going to take part to a tournament which allow CD players to play the new FW rules, and as the book won’t be released at time, to play them (only those on FW website) with RH list. I will try CD. We will see if it is a good idea or not…
AssurBahniZharr:
Hello guys!
An opinion from italy!
Recently our italian federation decided to’ not allow further use of CDs (and dogs of war) in tournaments. We had only one kind of tournament allowing CDs ( we call it Classic) a collection of rules and limits created by italian players!
My feeling about italy, is that Rh is actually dead. Few play CDs and most of us is waiting for fw as the new stuff! I suppose that when tamurkhan Will be released we’ll push for this to’ be used again in classic ( i personally dislike the classic, but i Will push for this too)
This is just to say that here almost noone cares for RH and its out of date rules. So yes, tamurkhan Will replace RH completely
Alan the evil:
I don’t think RH could disappear until GW will not do another CD official list…
If FIGW italian federation doesn’t want anymore CD in classic it is for FW armybook too.
Don’t be afraid about this: classic format is already change three times in a year. It will happen again…