Thommy H:
Look, this topic isn’t about whether they can take it. They can’t. There’s no debate here, but there’s also no point coming up with a fluff reason. They can’t take it because it isn’t in their army list.
But that’s not what Grim’s asking. His gaming group allows him to use a Hellcannon with the Storm of Chaos rules, and he wants to know whether it can be re-crewed by Hobgoblins like a normal war machine. Now, under the current Warriors of Chaos rules this is a non-issue, because it’s not a war machine, it’s a skirmishing unit. But under the old rules the nature of the Hellcannon is rather more nebulous.
So, my feeling is that he needs to house rule it, just as he house ruled the ability to take a Hellcannon at all. There is no concrete answer to this query, least of all from the Trolls.
BilboBaggins:
Just because it’s not in an army list is not a reason it can’t be taken. Giants aren’t in Empire, or Tomb Kings lists but they can take them.
I agree with you that they cannot be taken by the Chaos Dwarfs, Even if the new book came out saying the Chaos Dwarfs could take them I probably still wouldn’t. It would be out of character with the rest of my army.
Unfortunately there are stores, bunkers and gamers who will allow Chaos Dwarf players to use them.
apocalypstia:
I would agree that he would need the house rules as accepted by they group. If they play by largely 5/6th ed. then SoC should stand, if they are using 7th then WoC would seem to want to take precedent. I am guessing that the skirmishing unit stems from the treated as monster and handlers comments in the 7th ed. WoC.
Bilbo - if your referring to a DoW type of usage, 7th edition seems to be phasing that out, so if its not in the list then its not available to the army. By then again… house rules is house rules.
But anywho… isnt the point to just keep having funs.
BilboBaggins:
Yes, having fun playing the game is the point.
Personally if I was going to have house rules saying the Chaos Dwarfs are to use the Hell Cannon I would use the SOC ones even using 7th edition rules. But I like the fact it could eat it’s own army. But then I would have the house rules state if the unit could be recrewed and by whom, like Death Rocket/Earth Shaker crews yes, Bolt Thrower crews no.
cornixt:
Just because it's not in an army list is not a reason it can't be taken. Giants aren't in Empire, or Tomb Kings lists but they can take them.
BilboBaggins
That's because it says they can in the Giant's rules. All DoW units say which armies can take them. The Hellcannon rules don't say it can be used in a CD army, and the CD army list doesn't list it, so there isn't even a slightly grey area.
The Hellcannon is a monster that can shoot like a war machine, rather than a war machine that moves like a monster. So it can't be recrewed by anyone.
BilboBaggins:
Just because it's not in an army list is not a reason it can't be taken. Giants aren't in Empire, or Tomb Kings lists but they can take them.
BilboBaggins
That's because it says they can in the Giant's rules. All DoW units say which armies can take them. The Hellcannon rules don't say it can be used in a CD army, and the CD army list doesn't list it, so there isn't even a slightly grey area.
The Hellcannon is a monster that can shoot like a war machine, rather than a war machine that moves like a monster. So it can't be recrewed by anyone.
cornixt
Both of your statements is how I read the rules (especially the WOC version) too. Unfortunately there are people/stores that are allowing the CD's take it. I play in a GW store that has stated no Hell Cannon for Chaos Dwarfs and I follow that. I email the Trolls to make sure I didn't miss anything about it in a FAQ/Erratica, and I have read them too.
For a fun game with your opponents permission then take it and make sure you agree to the ruleset (SOC/WOC) and if recrewing would be allowed and by whom.
Thommy H:
Unfortunately there are people/stores that are allowing the CD's take it.
Why is it unfortunate? How can the Hellcannon possibly be "out of character" for Chaos Dwarfs -
they crew it.
If people want to include the Hellcannon in their Chaos Dwarf armies, they're welcome to if their opponent agrees. There's no need t justify it not being allowed via some convoluted explanation: it's not allowed because the Chaos Dwarf army list was written years before anyone even thought to make up the Hellcannon. It wasn't a design choice to not make it available to them.
You can do
anything if your opponent agrees and making a value judgement for a house rule is totally pointless. Grim wants to use it, and his opponents let him, so it's fine. But I would recommend using the current WoC rules because they're a lot simpler and, if nothing else, avoid the re-crewing issue.
Kera foehunter:
well the hell canon cool but i would field other things first !!
only if i was doing a siege i field one !!
heck i still need to put my together
BilboBaggins:
For year the Chaos Dwarfs did not make or need to make a Daemon possessed war machine/monster and with SOC they made one for Archaeon. Now many CD players seem to want it for their armies, even though GW seems to want to forget that SOC happened. Yes they included it in the Warriors of Chaos book but what is the chance that they (even when/if they put out a book) will allow it for the CD army.