[Archive] Re-crewing a rampaging Hellcannon?

Grimstonefire:

Seeing as we have two sets of rules to use now (SoC and Woc), I will refer mainly to the SoC ones in the context of RH. The other sort it gets more complicated.

Would it be unreasonable to say that Hobgoblin or CD crew could abandon their own warmachine to re-crew a rampaging hellcannon?

I had this opportunity the other day with my BT crew and I wasn’t sure how best to play it?

BilboBaggins:

My thoughts are this.

Hobgoblins - No, they are really only good for Bolt Throwers

Chaos Dwarfs - Yes

But according to all I’ve heard and seen the Hell Cannon is not allowed to be used by the Chaos Dwarf Army. The explaination was something like no Chaos Dwarf general would allow such an unpredictable machine to be used in the army.

Grimstonefire:

If you’re playing by the rules the CD cannot use it at all, but my issue is whether people think that is just plain sneaky, or a cunning move?

My opponent was not too pleased when I stopped it just short of hitting my general’s unit with 2 hobgoblins…

BilboBaggins:

If you do use it than I would have a house rule saying no Hobgoblins remanning the Hell Cannon. As far as I know Hobgoblins cannot recrew an Earth Shaker or Death Rocket so why in Hashut’s name would they be able to crew the Hell Cannon?

Kera foehunter:

well if not used in a siege !! i would not choose the hell canon
and i think that only cd can controll the damn thing!!
they eat the chaos warrior and turn them to green gue

Thommy H:

Why would you play with the Storm of Chaos rules for the Hellcannon? They’ve been supplanted by the ones in the Warriors of Chaos book and, in that instance, no you can’t re-crew it - it’s a skirmishing unit, not a war machine.

Kera foehunter:

i like the fact that it did rampage !! this make the game more fun

Grimstonefire:

The RH CD list is the only one I can think of where you have two different races capable of fielding a war machine, we are a special case (ignoring DoW). Not having the errata to hand, is there any reason why the hobgoblins couldn’t crew the CD ones if they are abandoned?

They are all crew are they not?

It’s probably covered in the errata.

As for the Hellcannon, I usually play using the SoC rules. My usual group are not overly concerned, so I stick to what I’m used to :wink:

Thommy H:

I think the consensus is that they can re-crew a Chaos Dwarf war machine then, yes. How this would interact with a war machine that the army isn’t technically allowed to use, and whose rules have since been replaced with a more coherent, better designed version, I have no idea! You’d be setting all precedents yourself there, so I guess you and your opponents will have to decide on a solution you think is fair. Certainly there’s no answer to this pretty unique situation, and there’s never likely to be now that the SoC Hellcannon rules have been replaced - I’d use the WoC version, myself, since this dispenses with the whole issue: it’s a monster and handler unit, not a war machine.

BilboBaggins:

But the newer rules took away some of the fun of the unit, like eating it’s own army. I loved seeing it misfire, eat it’s crew, then rampage against it’s own army. Even Chaos players that used it considered the problem (and set their army over 15 inches away from the Cannon.) It gave a randomness usually only found in the Orc and Goblin army.

GraaEminense:

Since the Hellcannon requires house rules to be in the Chaos Dwarf army anyway, there should be no reason not to do the job properly.

I’d say Chaos Dwarfs only, actually I’d even say Hellcannon Crew only (most Chaos Dwarfs are used to the non-crew-eating non-hellspawn guns).

If no one cares to do houserule thoroughly, normal rules apply and Hobgoblins can happily crew soul-rending deathmachines of Doom.

Just my $5.

apocalypstia:

not sure how much it really matters… WoC hellcannon - doesnt it mention that the Hellcannon follows the special rules for monsters and handlers? which by first glance would dictate that it wouldnt follow the re-crewing for abandoned machines… it seems by WoC that the hellcannon “warmachine”/monster never can be "abandoned as such. Its handlers may die but still the beast isnt technically abandoned and as a monster handlers cant be re-crewed from what i have seen.

As for SoC, well depends on the community where you play. Where i can play the SoC is treated as outdated and replaced/updated by new army lists, WoC, Daemons most specifically. If its treated as a straight warmachine and runs by those rules then yes. And unfortunately prolly yes that hobgobs by the letter of the rules could recrew it. Recrewing is a very loosely defined aspect. Stating that a crew can recrew an abandoned machine. Virtually no mention other than it can be done and it must be the whole remaining crew from what i recall. Fluffwise i dont see hobgobs being adequate to crew/handle the hellcannon.

but i could be missing some other finer points.

Kera foehunter:

i think that the hell canon will rampage more with out cd to controll it

BilboBaggins:

I’ve emailed GW’s trolls. Lets see what they say about it.

BilboBaggins:

i think that the hell canon will rampage more with out cd to controll it

Kera foehunter
That was true in SOC.
Now it Rampages (but only torwards enemy units) if it fails it's leadership test. If the crew is gone the ld is 4 (instead of the CD's 9) but if it passes then it appears that it can even shoot regularly.

Thommy H:

The Trolls will tell you that the WoC rules replace the SoC rules, and that you can’t “re-crew” a skirmishing unit.

BilboBaggins:

But will they say that the Chaos Dwarfs can take the Hell Cannon, I’ve been perviously told that they can’t.

Thommy H:

Why would they be able to?

GraaEminense:

No Hellcannon in Ravening Hordes CD list = No Hellcannon for Chaos Dwarfs.

Unless houseruled differently or you’re using a fan list.

BilboBaggins:

This whole topic is about crews of Chaos Dwarf War Machines remanning the Hell Cannon when the crew is dead. People are treating it as a Regiment of Renown, which it is not.

I was told by GW employees previously (had a few different people ask) if the Chaos Dwarfs could take the Hell Cannon. We were told we were not allowed to. They explained it as no sane Chaos Dwarf general would take something so unreliable (SOC rules at the time) that it would eat his own army.

The questions I posed to the trolls is.

1. Can the Chaos Dwarfs use the Hell Cannon and which ruleset (SOC or WOC) should they use?

2. If the Chaos Dwarfs can take the Hell Cannon can they be recrewed from Chaos Dwarf War Machines including the Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower.

Personally I hate the idea of Chaos Dwarfs taking that thing into battle, too cheesy.