oboudd:
My slave run around the field of battle carrying two big crude
choppas,it’s really efficant.
AGPO:
I really like this idea. i’d remove anything which looks a bit good for slaves (puffy cloathing, scale mail, dwarf made weapons etc.) Beastmen, Saurus and marrauders would certianly fit in well as Orcs. I’m using marrauders and Chaos warriors as orcs and black orcs respectively unitl I get my greenskins painted. I like the Fimir and Cathayan ideas as well
DANEK:
Well, they'd want their slaves to be able to fight the enemy and defend themselves.��Slaves are like currency, we don't want to just waste them.��We'd arm them with the means to fight.��Orcs use crude Choppas anyhow.��So I envision something equally as crude, but still effective.I have to disagree with you here, Xander. The times, as they say, are changing.
Xander
Judging from the updated fluff, I'd say that Slaves are going to get a major overhaul. Units of them will most likely be gone, and I couldn't be happier. When one takes a look at how the Dawi Zharr treat their slaves, it's hard to imagine them being in "fighting shape".
I for one hope they become upgrades for Deamon Engines and the like, akin to the Thralls used by Thousand Son Sorcerers in 40K. Possibly acting as meat sheilds to wear through before the Dawi Zharr crew can be targeted.
I also think the thought of them being "treated as currency" has to be scrutinized more. The Druchii use their slaves as currency and a means to show social status. The more slaves you own, the more you're respected.
But the Dawi Zharr have a different mentality, and slaves are more akin to beasts of burden or tools. They're to use until no longer useful, then discarded (or eaten :0 ).
I think the idea of them being "as currency" stems from the fact that most deals that are brokered by the Dawi Zharr involve the offering of large quanities of slaves. This is not because they are valuable, but the opposite. The Dawi Zharr run through thousands of slaves a day. They have resources and materials, but large quanities of slaves is conveniant.
marine281:
Im actually using gnoblars and goblins and covering them in putty to make mud golems. I saw them once, either here or at HoH. Anyway, I could see CD doing it, don’t waste good slaves in battle, use summoned piles of mud or lava stone to slow down the enemy.
Ishkur Cinderhat:
I am only going to have Orcs or Black Orcs in my army next to the obligational Hobgoblin units. Rather than taking slaves away from the forges (where their work is needed) to the battlefield, I think the Chaos Dwarfs would pay mercenaries to do the fighting. I see the slaves pretty much in a similar way to DANEK here.
The other reason, apart from the fluff point-of-view would be for me to not have too many different races in the army. Pretty much every army in Warhammer is made entirely from one people - maybe except the Dogs of War armies.
Having many different races in the Chaos Dwarf army will make the whole thing look rather incoherent, and it will also reduce the overall Chaos Dwarf theme of the army. I think the Dawi Zharr should be the major force in the army, only complemented by small units of greenskins to soak up some return fire from the enemies who will almost always come in larger numbers than us.
marine281:
I thought about the chaos warrior thing too. They would be great subsitutes. Only pet peeve is that they have a weapon skill of 5 and initive of 5, both thing blorks lack. Other than that however, they could work fine.:cheers:idea
AGPO:
Having many different races in the Chaos Dwarf army will make the whole thing look rather incoherent, and it will also reduce the overall Chaos Dwarf theme of the army. I think the Dawi Zharr should be the major force in the army, only complemented by small units of greenskins to soak up some return fire from the enemies who will almost always come in larger numbers than us.I disagree. At the moment a Chaos Dwarfs can come across as Greenskins, but with harder gobbos and a few Dwarfs with guns thrown in, whereas I think that the slave units would capture the idea of a race of slavers, few in number and usign slaves as warriors. The chaos dwarfs are few in number, and I think they would take a more "classical" view of slaves. Whereas some slaves would just be mine and forge fodder, others would be more favoured and these would be the warriors. The Romans, Alexander the Great and the British Empire all used warriors from different nations. These empires could never have been defended with men purely from such small states, so native troops would be essential to keep safe the empire's borders and keep the population docile. I think when the new book comes out, this is the approach we will see. Favoured slaves, such as the hobbos and black orcs, will actually do relatively well out of serving the Chaos Dwarfs. The Dawi'zharr are also pragmatists. Much like the Romans, they specialise in disciplined heavy infantry, and thus use foreign troops to provide cavalry (wolfriders) and the raw ferocity of barbarian warriors (Black Orcs) to make up for their own difficiencies. However, the Romans certainly didn't value other vassal's lives as much as their own, and I daresay they rated soe slaves more highly than others. I'm going to split my slave units into "fodder units" which will count as vanilla hobbos and orcs, and represent slaves set lose on the battlefield to catch arrows and choke the enemy with numbers, as well as "favoured slaves" which will act as well equiped Orcs and hobbos, as well as Black Orcs and Dogs of war units (Fimir possibly)
Ishkur
Ishkur Cinderhat:
Even if this were the way the Chaos Dwarf army will be like in the new army book, I still think the difference between slaves and allies should be more obvious than that. Hobgoblins make for suitable additions to the core CD army, giving them as you already mentioned cavalry, modest fire support and fast infantry. I really think the Hobgoblins would offer enough support in numbers really, with no further need to arm slaves.
While I love the black orc miniatures, I’d even go as far and remove them from the CD army list, because fluff-wise the black orcs were either banished from or fled the Chaos Dwarfs’ realm ages ago and would have little potential interest in being put on the leash again by their creators.
Breakfiend:
Anyone thought about Elven slaves? They could have been obtained from the Dark elves in a trade. Lizard slaves would be a bit odd as they are fighting machines and would not be broken so easily, and they wouldnt understand anything the chaos dwarfs said to them, and lastly they probably wouldnt survive long in cold dark caves lizards need sunlight to move.
AGPO:
Its not difficult to understand a cracked whip, plus pointing and shouting works in any language
Traitor King:
but if itsd cold and you cant actulyl move (think cold blooded like Breakfiend said) then a whip would do much…
Surely elven slaves (im think more highelves here) would rather die than serve others, particularly an evil race.
dedwrekka:
but if itsd cold and you cant actulyl move (think cold blooded like Breakfiend said) then a whip would do much...They'd have you mining inside the most volcanic mountains and areas known to the Old World. Cold? I doubt it.
Surely elven slaves (im think more highelves here) would rather die than serve others, particularly an evil race.
Traitor King
And you know, a lot of people might say they'd rather die than serve another race, but history has proven time and time again that their wills can be broken. Or if you do die rather than serve, there's hundreds of others of your kind who'd be willing to live with the possibility of escape rather than simply die horribly. The strong willed ones are sacrificed to Hashut, just to acquiesce to their requests.
The Slaver:
Interesting debate going on here. I must say that i agree with AGPO, the CD mentality of slaves does seem rather roman, but i see at as even crueler. My slaves are going to be modeled as cannon fodder. No weapons, no armor, chained together and proded forward. Sure, you would save some slaves for the mines, but not the weak ones, might as well use them up getting back to the capital. I also see Hobgobs as not so much “elite slaves” but pillagers. The CDs take care of capturing the slaves and handeling the “books”, while the Hobgobs go crazy, stealing lot and burning the place to the ground. Just my two cents on the issue.
Perturabo:
I agree with AGPO. I see slaves on the battlefield as the ones that are no use elsewhere. Humans, Dwarves and Elves would be put to work in the mines and forges, while Orcs probably wouldn’t. Give an Orc a pick or a hammer and he’s either going to hit you or another slave with it, which is why they are of use in warfare.
I will field my Orcses with two choppas, and use them as shock troops. Naked Hobbo’s might actually be made up of various races, when I get round to slaves.
AGPO:
There are plenty of references to the high elves being enslaved and put to work by the dark elves. In a slave based economy, slaves can be used in almost any role. Most, no doubt, will be put to work in the mines and factories. Others will have other uses. The maliciousness of the hobbos and the fact that they value their priviillaged position and the protection of the chaos dwarfs makes them useful as slave drivers and many other roles you would not trust others with. Much like the Roman Emperor’s German bodyguard, one can see a sorcerer or powerful lord getting himself a powerful and ferocious bodyguard loyal to him alone amongst the Dawi’zharr, and ogres, chaos warriors/marrauders and blorcs could well fulfill this role. The fodder aspect is a useful one too. Auxilliary units were often sacrificed, and it was always the more elite legions that were kept as reserves, so as not to risk Roman lives if not necessary. Check out the fiction in the DE book, when the slavers fight bretonians to see what I mean.
Arlon:
men-work
beastmen-fighter-orc stats
elves-work
orcs -fighter
goblins-fighter
black orcs-fighter
hobbos- fighter
giants- workers and fighters
dwarfs- workers
skaven- fighter-gabo stats
saurus- fighter orc stats
skinks-fighters -gobbo stats
kroxigors- fighter blorc stats
i think i coverd eneryone
:hat off
Theory_Man:
Its not difficult to understand a cracked whip, plus pointing and shouting works in any languageWhipping a saurus warrior, a creature derived from a crocodile? Better start running, because after the two seconds that it would take for them to feel the pain of the whip, If they feel it at all, they will probable attack you and/or try to eat you.
AGPO
More likely the dwarfs would kill the lizards and turn them into scrumptious lizard steaks.
Kera foehunter:
Thanks for the list Arlon
AGPO:
Here are my thoughts on the various races:
Marrauders, Gors, Orcs - Warriors who fight for the Dawi’zhaar either to escape the mines, for material reward, or simply for the increased oppertunites for violence. Mostly slaves and vassals with poor living conditions, but certainly not too mistreated as they are needed to fight. C.A. Orc warriors
Skinks, gobbos - pure cannon fodder - hearded into battle by slavers. Given the chance to ‘fight’ or face certain death and worse in the temple of Hashut C.A. gobbos
Hobbos - More than accurately covered in the fluff, their profile could also be used to cover men - either favoured and useful servants (decently equipped) or fodder (vanila)
Chaos Warriors, Bestigor, Blorcs - The most favoured of servants, privaleged with high quality equipment and other material rewards, their arrangement with the dawi’zhaar is one of mutual benefit, though the Dawi’zhaar won’t hesitate to sacrifice their lives if necessary C.A. Blorcs