Grimstonefire:
I’ve gone all out and posted a link to my website on pretty much every forum I’m on. Its interesting, because there are many people interested in CD (who don’t collect them) who seem to agree on a common issue for our new book. Basically that nailing down a definitive ‘strategic focus’ for what our new look list should be is actually surprisingly hard…
What I mean by this can be seen by looking at the other armies. All these have their own specialities that are completely unsubtle:
Beastmen: Ambush style gameplay
High Elves: Always strikes first, elite armies
Dwarfs: Gunlines, stand and shoot.
Vampire Counts: Raise dead/ repeat.
HoC: Various forms of combat pain.
O&G: As above, but with a huge variety of unreliable things.
CD: ???
At the moment you could say the RH CD list is cannon fodder and artillery.
But what should they be in the future? Radical thinkers like me see big changes coming, but what do you think would make our list original and fun to play both with and against?
Cannon fodder and artillery may be fun for a while, but its not going to be competitive as a list, and doesn’t have many strategic variations.
torn:
i see a solid counter attack army, with the solid lines of CD warriors and black orcs, with blunderbussers having a fantastic stand and shoot reaction power, and hobgoblins as flankers to charge the chargers.
would work better if hobgoblins were like empire detachments but you cant have everything.
i see the artillery as just there because every arm has it. thought the earthshaker does work with my counter attack sld line theory, maybes sometimes turning it from counter attack to regular attack.
this is how i play my army. i know the current list is versatile enough to be used in quite a few different ways.
Grimstonefire:
Having solid counter attack as a focus, with possibilities for all out attack could work.
What would help that, and what hinders it?
Would it fail to be strong/ competitive in either if it did both?
It’s not really that imaginative though as a focus for our own unique style. The sort of thing that people would chose to play CD for, not just because of the models, that they actually like our own unique style.
An idea I had was a HIGHLY integrated list, where every unit was like part of a much larger machine, and combining units into combo attacks was actually rewarded somehow. I’ve never played with Tau, but I believe they are sort of similar?
Its a WIP idea.
torn:
my tactic is a fairly simple one, and can be used by most slow hard hitting infantry armies.
i think your idea is a good 1 to some effect, but a bad one in another way. removing options and forcing players to play one way can make an army very predictable and very easy to beat.
i have a 4000pt blood angel army that took me a lot of effort, and is now defunct because they changed the rules to make it ‘all out assault’ based and took away a lot of the other options. it made the army very predictable on the table and very easy to beat if you know your going to be facing them.
you have a point that we have nothing completely original, but i wouldnt add something to detract from the balanced list we have now.
the combination style could work in fantasy but it would be difficult to make work. basically with tau units other than the ones firing carry their targeters, meaning if you get the scouts within sensor range the grav tanks can unload a lot of nasty firepower. im not sure of the exact rules or the correct wording but its something like that. i cant see that style being viable for us. . . .
although you could have a magical item for a hobgoblin hero, a magic arrow, that if he scores a hit with it makes all the daemonbound deathrockets latch onto the scent and have less chance of missing. i cant think of an exact way to work it ff the top of my head bu that makes hobbo wolfies and death rockets a combo.
i wouldnt do it with the earthshaker incase it got too good.
possibl a magic banner for hobbos which say if they are involved in a fight with their CD masters, they gain something to help in the combat, to show them proving themselves.
thats me all out of ideas for now . . .
Vexxus:
A slow but hard hitting army, balanced with the magic that their dwarf counterparts lack, but less effective range to even it all out.
Theory_Man:
Chaos dwarfs are all about evil runic blacksmithing, rockets, beards, hard liquor (beer is for orderly dwarfs) and crazy inventions/war machines.
As for a strategic focus, short range firepower (blunderbusses), usually dwarf hardiness/toughness (large blocks of well armored infantry) with daemonic artillery support.
GRNDL:
I’m with Theory, CD’s big claim to fame is their use of magic and clever engineering/craftsmanship and I think this should be the focus of the really cool stuff (rares, specials, abilities, etc) Although some other armies have a touch of this, I don’t think any of the armies focus on it. Skaven and Empire seem to have the most, but its only very barely magical. With a high daemonic engineering focus, I think it could be unique, or at least, made our own.
Bring on the Kollossi! 
If not engineering, they are known for weapon artificing, so should have some cool kick ass magic weapon/items that are above the norm in some way.
Willmark:
Strong magic and technology run amok I would say. More weird machines. Perhaps the tenderizer and whirlwind but piloted by a dwarf and daemonicly powered
Maybe lessen the effect of the greenskins on the army. Chaos dwarfs should still be few in number IMHO. As written there aren’t to many of them to begin with, unless that suddenly changes. They should be awesome fighters in the vein of shorter chaos warriors in terms of combat prowess. Again there aren’t that many, those that are a around would be awesome warriors IMO.
Hobgoblins should be a definite for any revision. They only reason they are not all dead is because of the CDs. The only reason the CDs survived the Black Orc rebellion is because of the Hobbos…
Xander:
Here are some brainstormed thoughts:
- Unique magic that pushes a theme, eg. close combat, short ranged fire
- Daemonic Warmachines that shoot in the magic phase
- Since Chaos Dwarfs are raiders in general, there should be something to reward engaging in combat. By contrast to Dwarfs where there is almost no necessity to engage.
- Fear causing elites? Immortals? Fear causing daemonic warmachines ala [[Hellcannon]]
- Priests for Warmachine bonuses ala [[Grudge Bearer]]
- Some kind of scout/raider rule to get Chaos Dwarfs closer to combat from the beginning.
Grimstonefire:
Good ideas there Xander
- Daemonic Warmachines that shoot in the magic phase
This could be interesting, but do you mean they also fire in the shooting phase?:o Or that their attack is a magic missile (if so, why would it need to fire in that phase. Could be Daemonic Attack instead)? My Soul reaper would fall into this latter category. You could have +2 on the misfire table for firing twice in one round.
- Since Chaos Dwarfs are raiders in general, there should be something to reward engaging in combat. By contrast to Dwarfs where there is almost no necessity to engage.
Could be tricky as a universal special rule, but its a good idea in principle. I guess it would have to reflect slave taking somehow? Double points for banners?
- Fear causing elites? Immortals? Fear causing daemonic warmachines ala Hellcannon
I have been thinking about this, but to be honest I don’t see why our elites would be any scarier than say your average chosen Chaos warrior. Fear causing warmachines are a good idea, I’ll have to think on that one.
- Priests for Warmachine bonuses ala Grudge Bearer
Already thought of that one, I plan to introduce a Priest hero character alongside the sorcerer and engineer.
- Some kind of scout/raider rule to get Chaos Dwarfs closer to combat from the beginning.
Now that is radical stuff! You could either do something like the “Look Snorri, Trolls” special rule, but maybe D6+1 (not really helpful for disciplined troops), or say anything can be moved forwards up to 6" if the player choses it. That would make the CD a fast army in comparison to Dwarfs.
A Relentless equivalent wouldn’t be needed then.
Fluffwise (well using my fluff) it would show that the CD are actually desperate for slaves.
Willmark:
Interesting, but GW seems to have shifting away from randomness since 3rd (in most armied that is) Not saying its not coool idea in fact far from it. I just don’t see chaos dwarfs, (who dispite their name are anything but chaotic) reacting randomly… YMMV.
I’d still like to see an option for orcs and black orcs. Black orcs as a mercenary unit that the mega afluent CDs spend money on for fearsome fighters. Orcs can represent any number of things from slaves to mercenaries in my view. Goblins are right out.
What no love for the daemonic tenderizer or whirlwind? (shhh, don’t tell AGPO).
torn:
a tenderizer or whirlwind could be like that funny little thing the evil gnomy dude drives through the tnnel in the film labyrinth . i havent seen it for about 15 years but i can remember kinda what its like. seat on back lots of crushy mushy slicy bits spinning on front.
Grimstonefire:
It’s like a pump wagon with a massive cutting/drilling/ slicing blade thing spinning on the front.
That would be good for clearing out tunnels of rebelling slaves… :idea
Could be a CD pastime.
Willmark:
Sounds like a good modeling project for down the road (makes mental note).
Grimstonefire:
I had a radical idea for a universal special rule:
Immune to Panic!
That would be a completely unsubtle character trait.
Another idea is that they Hate everyone (except greenskins)! That would be the exact polar opposite of Dwarfs.
Fluffwise it could be argued that they would have more reason to hate certain races over others, but in the description of this rule it would explain that they Hate other races simply because they are not CD (and because they are bitter and twisted towards everyone).
Hatred would be a useful army trait, and would make the standard unit of warriors much more attractive compared to any expensive elites. Sure hatred has its downsides as well, but this could reflect a chaotic nature?
Xander:
Ya, most of my thoughts were brainstorming off the top of my head. Interesting thoughts about them though. This may be a useful podcast type discussion, no? Speaking of which, do you have a Mic yet Grim? 
Grimstonefire:
Damn. Seems DE will have Hatred for everyone :mad
Would have been more appropriate for CD than DE IMO. Oh well.
What about:
Slavers For every banner captured the Chaos Dwarfs receive an extra 20 VPs to represent captured slaves.
@Xander
Not yet. Need to get myself a wireless modem router first. Priorities 
Vexxus:
Fluffwise it could be argued that they would have more reason to hate certain races over others, but in the description of this rule it would explain that they Hate other races simply because they are not CD (and because they are bitter and twisted towards everyone).
Grimstonefire
Or/Also they hate everyone because they think they are after their mines/resources/technology!
CD society is fueled by the lust for mining, creation, and slavery, and they could see all other races as enemies of those goals.
Vex
Grimstonefire:
Another suggestion someone had was that a CD unit can ignore its first panic test of the game.
@vexxus
What about a Greed special rule?
dedwrekka:
I think that Immune to Panic or Hated for everyone would be a bit of a stretch. Hatred of Dwarfs I could understand, due to their intense bitterness of the kin that turned their backs on them, but the Dawii Zharr don’t hate other races so much as they see them as inferior (hence slave raids instead of full blown empire building). They just don’t seem to have the reasons for a full blown hatred of other races, cut off as they are from the rest of the old world.
I could see the hatred of dwarfs working like the dwarf hatred of greenskins, not really adding to the cost of the Dawii Zharr themselves.
Immune to fear would be understandable, seeing that they’re on the edge of undead lands, deal with demons and chaos, and generally seem to be the ones doing the terrorizing.
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We should beware trying to introduce a lot of new and unique rules to the Dawi Zharr, as it tends to confuse both opponents and players. There should also be downsides to units, so keep in mind when thinking about units. The Chaos Dwarfs may have some powerful units, but they still need to be beatable.
Artillery has always been a bit of a specialty for Chaos Dwarfs, with several contraptions as dangerous to the owner when something goes wrong, as they are to the enemy. Throw in some magic ability, some heavy infantry tossed in next to lightest hobgoblins and you’re stumbling into dawi Zharr territory.
