I know their overpriced but I like the blunders. I’ve also had good results with the raiders and rear charges.
I am considering dropping the Daemonsmith for 3 bull centaurs w/shields, spears(?) +FC -blazing banner (though that would limit those wonderful artillery re-rolls), and possibly dropping the wolf raiders for a 2nd block of hobgobs in foot.
I think you want the Daemonsmith, you’ll rely on the war machines to do a lot.
You need a 3rd combat unit (Hobgobs don’t count). Maybe the BCs. Also, a Taur’ruk could run around on his own as a great blocker with Crown of Command.
I would put Dragonhelm and a regular shield on the BSB instead of Enchanted Shield - that way he gets a 2+ ward vs flaming and the same armour save.
Shield of Ptolos on the Daemonsmith? Its a steal for the price, and handy if he will be hanging around artillery on his own.
First off blunderbusses…really? I guess it comes down to personal taste, but these things are not worth the points. You’d be better off with a unit of 28 Infernal guard with shields for a 1/3 of the price.
As Baggronor stated you need to change up the characters equipment. The Prophet and BSB should both have 2+ saves and 4+ ward save, there are tons of ways to achieve this.
The daemonsmith needs a dispel scroll and then I like giving him the charmed shield and opal amulet. Those items stop the cannon sniping.
The 26 hobgoblins is a weird number. If it is a combat unit it should be larger, if you want it as a smaller unit (20 - 24 models) then throw some bows on them.
Hope that helps.
And P.S. How did you pick the book up yesterday? It was available at Games Day UK (300 copies) or not until the end of the month.
The problem with the blunderbusses is the range. You may only get to shoot twice the entire game.
Say you end up with 40 shots in the turn against T3. You would do the following.
20 would hit, then you’d re-roll and end up with 30 hits. 15 would wound and then you would re-roll. You’d end up with 22.5 wounds againsts T3. Then they would have a save/ward save still.
Shooting at Goblins may be a waste but shooting at Swordmasters is always a good idea. Blunderbusses have their place but it is a big risk in an all-comers list.
Yeah Chung got the first copy at 9am, their sold out now though.
I did think of whacking the shield on the smith but with the wicked lookout sir from the infernal engineer rule it seemed a waste to me.
Ive revised a bit.
I’ve had some luck with the blunderbuss, with the BSB in there granting stubborn they can all fire and if you set up your terrain and battleline properly you can get a few extra turns of shooting with them. Not the best choice by any means but a personal indulgence.
I swapped the smith to fire to deal with any fast cav come to spoil my artillery’s day.
2200pts
Sorcerer prophet -lv4, healing potion, mask of the furnace, blood of hashut (lore of Hashut) 420pts
Infernal Castellan -BSB- black hammer, enchanted shield, obsidian amulet 200pts
Daemonsmith Sorcerer -lv2, dispell scroll (lore of fire) 155pts
I personally think that’s a very solid list with some potentially devastating firepower, strong magic and some solid infantry blocks to back it up.
Where it is weak is with adaptability and movement.
I look forward to both doing up a LOA list and playing against yours at some stage. I think i’ll have to go pure dwarfs to take on your Chaos Dwarf force just for the age old enemies.
How much was the book if you don’t mind me asking.
What do you think of it’s overall content? (not just the CD stuff)
Are you putting the Smith or Prophet in the BB unit?
What is the total armor/ward save of the BSB with your build?
I liked the first list better. Right now you have 3 blocks of infantry and 3 war machines. You won’t be able to protect your flanks as you will be beat in the movement phase.
You should be spending towards the mimimum on core and picking up things like centaurs/hellcannon/destroyer to support the infantry.
I can tell your stuck on using the Blunderbusses so I wont comment on those to much, but they just make it so hard to fit anything in the list. I’d split your heroes into two different units to make sure your list doesn’t become a deathstar. How about something like this;
Lords
Sorcerer Prophet 420pts (LV4 Wizard, healing potion, Mask of The Furnace, Blood of Hashut, Lore of Hashut)
Heroes
Infernal Castellan 197pts (The Mask of the Furnace, Shield)
Core (29)Infernal Guard 554pts (Blunderbusses)
(19)Infernal Guard 355pts (FC, Fireglaives)
Special
6 Bull Centaurs 325pts (Musician, Standard Bearer, Great Weapon, Banner of Swiftness)
Unfortunately the store I play at took a dim view to proxy/using empty bases for models I don’t yet have, so i couldn’t take the Destroyer.
I got absolutely crushed by a very competitive, saurus heavy Lizardmen list which resulted in a series of re-writes and testing that yielded more (but marginally closer) defeats.
Things I have learned:
-Sorcerer Prophets are very good in combat
-the infernal engineer rule is fantastic, daemonsmith sorcerers are the best engineer in the game hands down especially as they can also use damage spells to nuke fast cave and skirmishers.
-Ash storm isn’t all that great…
-Flames of Azgorh is -provided you ever manage to cast the damn thing.
-blunderbuss are better than fireglaives
-we can’t handle monsters very well (I assume the destroyer might be of some help here though)
-Fireborn are terrible bordering on worst unit in the game. They look average on paper but they play far worse.
-Ironsworn are incredible! never leave home without them.
In light of this, BEHOLD my new army list (hopefully it won’t suck so much) 2000pts:
Sorcerer Prophet-Lv4-healing potion, talisman of preservation, enchanted shield, blood of hashut (lore of Hashut) 405pts
Infernal Castellan - BSB- mask of the furnace, shield 197pts
Really? How so? He has only 3 attacks. Or do you just mean he is hard to kill?
Fireborn are terrible bordering on worst unit in the game. They look average on paper but they play far worse.
What were you playing against? I would have thought the auto str4 hits would be good vs 20mm infantry.
Ironsworn are incredible! never leave home without them.
:o 17pts a model though... 1 Attack each? Doesn't seem worth it to me. 451pts for 23 guys?
At 2k, you have no artillery - looking at the list the only things I identify as priority threats are the Destroyer and the lv4. The infantry can't do anything notable for 2-3 turns and I have no reason to move towards them at first. I'd throw everything into killing the Destroyer at range with war machines/spells and then mob the 3 small infantry units...
I think the Prophet is too pricey at 2000pts, I would take a Daemonsmith or two and some artillery.
Do the BBs achieve anything at all? They seem a bit like free VPs at a glance...
The Prophet is actually rather decent. He simply won’t die, and will put out an adequate amount of hurt on rank and file, and if you get lucky on the darkforged weapon roll or have a decent go with the blood of hashut you can do decently in duals as well (so long as its not a dedicated lord killer)
Yeah on paper the Infernals look terrible, but they went toe to toe against a 30 strong block of temple guard with the full allotment of lore of life buffs (I had a terrible dispel phase) and a stegadon charge and won every round of combat by a decent amount (until a 2nd stegadon charged them in the flank on the 3rd turn of combat:()
Artillery train can get very pricey very quickly, and with units costing what they do we get easily outmaneuvered if taken at 2000pts or less, especially against T4 (what I’ve been fighting mostly).
probably right about the destroyer, come to think of it. Its mainly there to take on monsters, something that I’ve been having a lot of trouble with and if it eats a few cannon or stone throwers before it goes down for good it will have at least bought my infantry a temporary reprieve.
(especially since people have learnt quickly to target the ironsworn with everything they’ve got, might as well force people to hedge their bets on one or the other.)
the blunders do reasonably well on the flanks of the infantry formation. They put out a decent barrage of shot that does more damage than you’d think, and behind it they are still S4 T4 with a 3+save (despite what some have said you still keep the shield) kept within BSB and general range they will stubbornly refuse to die until the last one gets dragged down. plenty of time for the ironsworn to grind down the centre, or for the Destroyer to get stuck in.
Oh, my local GW has 4x4 boards which obviously changes play a fair bit, probably should have mentioned that earlier:P.
Small boards let the blunders do their job a lot better. I can see wanting to keep them. I can’t imagine why the fireborn were sucking for you, though. . . . they seem like a solid bet on paper. I have to admit I haven’t played them yet since I have not yet figured out my modeling plan for them.
I wonder if on a small board the L4 wizards aren’t as useful any more. Another block of infantry and two more war machines would be more reliable and lay down the smackage faster.
sure 17pts per models is a lot but what we get for those pts ?
a 20mm model with ws5 + 3armour save +5 S + magical attacks
how many models are 20mm base currying no GW to reach this Strenght and having tha armour?
i thing they arent that much over priced maybe 16pts would be better
now now i know what you are going to say
why should we take them while we can get normal infernals for 5 pts less?
+1 S +1ws ( hitting on 3s most of the time ) the ability to use there +3 armour and +6 parry along with the S5 should answer your question
i havent give up on them yet …
i certainly try them
and remeber their purpose … its not killing things its holding things thats why they have 1 attacks and thats why they are able to combine their small base with phenomenall charactericitcs like +3 armour + 6 parry +s5 S + magical attacks
a stubborn would be good but that can be achived as well
are they so bad as everyone says?
sure 17pts per models is a lot but what we get for those pts ?
a 20mm model with ws5 + 3armour save +5 S + magical attacks
how many models are 20mm base currying no GW to reach this Strenght and having tha armour?
They still only have 1 attack, I2 and M3 though... for 17pts in Special... I'll give them a go just for laughs but they aren't viable by a mile. I'd rather have IG with great weapons, at least they'll kill something and are cheaper.
its not killing things its holding things thats why they have 1 attacks and thats why they are able to combine their small base with phenomenall charactericitcs like +3 armour + 6 parry +s5 S + magical attacks
I'd rather spend points on faster units that hit hard or war machines. Its the same reason you never see Ironbreakers anymore - there is no room for troops that don't kill much and cost a lot in 8th. You need cheap and numerous or pricey but hitty. Our troops are sadly the worst of both worlds :|