So I’d like to make my own friendly update to the Ravening Hordes list to ammend any problems the Chaos Dwarf army list has now that 7th Edition is out. As the other army books come out, you start to see things like…
- Goblin Wolfriders with shields will lose fast cavalry (but hobbos don’t apparently).
- Goblins (who are less weapon skilled than hobbos, and FEAR ELVES) are 1 whole point MORE than hobbos. FORTUNATELY, Goblins still make 1 point cheaper archers than hobbos, or else they would be absolutely pointless and wasteful in a Chaos Dwarf army… and almost still are. When Ravening Hordes was out, the Goblins entry was also 2 points. Now that O&G armybook is out, they have been changed to 3 points. Would a proper update place Hobbos at 3 points, or perhaps even 4? Or did Gobbos gain some kind of benefit with that increase, that I’m just not seeing?
- Chaos Dwarf Lords are 1 toughness point less than a Dwarf Lord (or am I thinking CD Heroes & Thanes?). They were the same during RH, but the Dwarf book’s entry was updated with +1 Toughness. Should this be the same for Chaos Dwarf Heroes (or was it Lords?)? Would there be a point increase along with it?
- Sneaky Gitz can no longer lap around, but did they really need that in the first place? 5 points for cannon fodder with 2 poisoned attacks each… does they not still seem great or what? Is there something more appropriate to replace Lap Around with, for friendly games? (which is all we CDs really can have anymore now…) Or is the “Free Reform” rule a good-enough replacement?
- Is it really true that a Blunderbuss unit can only hit a Large Target with 1 shot under the current rules (I thought I read that in the latest Word Of Hashut)… If so, I guess we should definitely implement those new Blunderbuss rules (from WOH)!
Please help me add to this list of possible problems, broken rules/entries that need a severe house-rule update. This way we can create our own sort of FAQ/Errata that we could print out and show our “friendly” opponents. They can look at it before the game and say "Yeah… OK this really does make sense… this looks reasonable. Use it!"
Call it our own Chaos Dwarf Online Errata/FAQ if you will… or don’t if that’s somehow a copyright violation… (but didn’t the Direwolf Group do it once?)
When we’ve figured out all the fixes and come up with an agreeable consensus… I’ll put them all together with a nice production value… or we can send it to Word Of Hashut for that (if they can legally reprint it).
or don’t if that’s somehow a copyright violation… (but didn’t the Direwolf Group do it once?)
Do you guys agree that Hobgoblins should be 3 points instead of 2, like a lesser standard elf-fearing goblin? :h It’s possible our greenies should stay at 2 points to make up for our lack of special rules and choices. Or are we a quite competitive list as it is?
Also, should Hobbo wolfriders really have a spear option? I mean I would certainly want spears for mine, over the usual hand weapons. But wouldn’t this take away the point of the DoW unit of Hobbo Khan’s wolfboyz? Also, I always thought that the reason stunted Gobbos use spears was to make up for their lack of height. I personally like to play by fluff and what makes the most sense rather than playing STRICTLY by RAW… so I like to choose what makes the most since fluff-wise. Not just give everyone the most options possible.
I’m not so sure I should add that to the house rules unless it makes good sense. Afterall I think I’m going to print those rules out and use them in most games.
Can we still try to figure out any other broken parts of our list?
Do you guys agree that Hobgoblins should be 3 points instead of 2
First, playing with stuff like points values to address perceived imbalances is kind of opening a can of worms. I mean, if we're going to alter that as a "house rule", we could alter pretty much anything... You have to draw a line between a sensible modification and something which, if you change it, opens the door to fundamentally warping the game. Now, there's nothing wrong with tinkering with Warhammer as much as you like, but it's just not a mere "house rule" at that stage.
Second, a basic Goblin costs the same as a Hobgoblin because, from 6th Edition onwards, half points were removed from Warhammer. They should be worth 2.5 pts, but that just can't happen in the current system. To counter this, Hobbos pay a bit of a premium for bows (no other model as cheap as that pays 3 points for a bow...) so Hobbos with a bow are priced about right, but naked Hobbos are too cheap.
But wouldn't this take away the point of the DoW unit of Hobbo Khan's wolfboyz?
The rules for each of those units weren't written with each other in mind. Hobgoblin Wolf Riders used to be able to get spears in White Dwarf presents: Chaos Dwarfs (I think) and Oglah Khan's Wolfboyz came out years later. I virtually guarantee that Wolf Riders in Ravening Hordes were not denied spears to make Oglah Khan's Wolfboyz (which were given new rules several months later) special.
Also, I always thought that the reason stunted Gobbos use spears was to make up for their lack of height.
By that logic, shouldn't Humans and Elves not use spears either? I think you're making up fluff there.
I don't really have an opinion on Wolf Riders having spears, to be honest. I don't think it's a problem if you want to house rule it, but I also don't think it's a big gap in the list that needs filling.
Hobgoblins of any type have never been allowed spears. they have only ever had handweapons, bows and light armour. DoW are the exception.
Goblins are well overpriced for what they are, and although Hobgoblins are dirt cheap I wouldn’t change them. They aren’t a exact similarity to begin with. The CD list is getting less and less competative with each book, we just don’t have enough to deal with the new ones. If you start changing the basic points then there is quite a lot of other things that could be adjusted too, so you might aswell write a new list.
Cornixt, actually the Hobgoblin Khan Mercenary General and Mournful Renegades could take spears…and I think I have a few with spears from FTH (Fantasy tribes)…But that is WAY OLD SCHOOL (3rd edition)…
And you can limit your choice for yourself for fluff or method of play, but pemanently changing them or points values and you have created a whole new army list…no problem for you group of players…but I don’t think it will change here until GW gives us a new army book of our own…
Hobgoblins of any type have never been allowed spears.
Yeah, I looked it up after I turned the computer off, and they didn't have the option in the old book either. Still, I don't think the idea of that was to make a Regiment of Renown that appeared years later "special". There's nothing inherently wrong with Wolf Riders getting spears, but there's no particular reason (besides "more options = more powerful") to let them have them either.
Well honestly I do see spears as being a big improvement for wolfriders only because then that required second rank would be able to attack in close combat.
Also, THANK YOU SO MUCH for pointing out that goblins come with light armour. THAT is what I was missing the whole time!!
Off Topic: could anyone tell me what’s better for Bull Centaurs, hand weapon/shield combo, or great weapon? Because you can’t use shields with a great weapon, right?
Well honestly I do see spears as being a big improvement for wolfriders only because then that required second rank would be able to attack in close combat.
Not for cavalry. Only infantry get that second rank bonus - cavalry just get +1 Strength on the charge. Also, you can put them in as many ranks as you want. There's no maximum number of models per rank and, since fast cavalry get not rank bonus anyway, you can put them in any formation you like.
Off Topic: could anyone tell me what's better for Bull Centaurs, hand weapon/shield combo, or great weapon? Because you can't use shields with a great weapon, right?
That's right. Great weapons require two hands, so can't be used in combination with a shield. It all depends on how you play Bull Centaurs. If they use weapons like infantry, hand weapon and shield gives you +1 armour save, which is nice. If they use weapons like cavalry, great weapons are total crap (for the points they pay), so never use them.
