Henroth:
Without the Hobgoblins all be more difficult for the CD’s. x.x
The CD’s to use of another race for figth in the battles or be foremans? I don’t think.
Gnoblars ? too weaks.
Orcs ? too stupids.
Which is you opinion ?
Uzkul Werit:
Chaos Dwarfs would be stuffed without their slaves. There’s not enough of them. And without the Hobgoblins, they would’ve been killed in the Black Orc rebellion.
Baggronor:
Yup, its a symbiotic relationship. They are mutually dependent.
Loki:
Do we know why they changed side ? as they where on the winning then swapped at the last second to help the CD ?
Nicodemus:
Do we know why they changed side ? as they where on the winning then swapped at the last second to help the CD ?I'm not sure if we know the real reasons. Here's what I understand and think:
Loki
i - Treachery and cowardice are part of the nature of Hobgoblins. They are always thinking of how to manipulate things so that they get something out of it. If they have an opportunity to stab someone in the back to serve their own interests then they will do it.
ii - following on from i, I can only summize that the Hobgoblins realized that if they allied themselves with the greenskins that they would ultimately be worse off. They are smart enough to have thought out what would happen after the battle, and already being slaves anyway they decided that they were probably still going to still be the slaves of who ever won.
If they sided with the Orcs and won, they would be slaves, probably no different from Goblins. If they sided with the orcs and lost they would be slaves of the Chaos Dwarfs again, but retribution would be terrible and their entire race would be punished for eternity (they thought it was bad being slaves before... but this would be worse!).
If they sided with the Chaos Dwarfs and won, little would change, and they might have guessed that things could improve for them. If they sided with the Chaos Dwarfs and lost they would still be the slaves of the Black Orcs, and still probably treated no differently than if they had sided with the Black Orcs and won anyway.
Then again, maybe the Hobgoblins just thought that it would be better to side with the devil you know, and didn't think through too much? I think they would have preferred to be the slaves of the Chaos Dwarfs rather than slaves of the disorganized greenskins as it might have meant a slightly better quality of life.
As it happens after the Black Orc rebellion the Hobgoblins were moved up a peg or two from lowly slave to something slightly better. They are now considered more of an elite class of slave within Chaos Dwarf society. I can only suppose that if they had sided with the Black Orcs that they would have been regarded as little different than Goblins in the eyes of the Orcs, and treated accordingly.
Just my two (Canadian) cents, which is presently below par with American pennies.
~N
P.S. I should just delete all my rambling text above and show this:
So after a lot of mental effort of their part, they probably had one very clever self-serving Hobgoblin who went: "DUH! Let's avoid any chance of eternal torture at the hands of the Chaos Dwarfs, who we known can come up with cruel and unusual punishments even when we haven't done anything to deserve it, and ally with the side that has the bet set of outcomes."
Note that being enslaved by the Black Orcs is an assumption and may not be entirely correct. It may not be worse than being enslaved by the Chaos Dwarfs... furthermore, the term 'slave' may be a relative term if they were working for the Black Orcs... as the Black Orcs may not think of them as slaves, per-se, but they still may not be treated any different than if they were enslaved by the Chaos Dwarfs.
wallacer:
Enlightened self interest on the part of Hobgoblins.
Which just goes to show that they’re smarter than other Greenskins.
cornixt:
I disagree with the “nothing changes” in the table. The Hobgoblins are well above the rest of the slaves, a much better position than otherwise - at the bottom of the heap since all other greenskins hate them the most.
Thommy H:
Haha, that’s table’s great - and very succinct. I’d rather be a privileged slave of a powerful, technologically enhanced race than just another downtrodden runt in the hordes of Orcs and Goblins. Hobgoblins would just be where Goblins are now if they’d sided with the Black Orcs.
Bassman:
I have a vision very similar to Cornix’s. I do not think hobgoblins are simple slaves. Well, their lives are totally spendable to the eyes of Chaos Dwarfs because they are plenty of hobgoblins but they need them… to keep control of other green skins, because of the great numbers of them compared to the few Chaos Dwarfs…
Hobgoblins are perfect to match Chaos Dwarfs limits so they are indispensable for Chaos Dwarfs society.
Nicodemus:
I disagree with the "nothing changes" in the table. The Hobgoblins are well above the rest of the slaves, a much better position than otherwise - at the bottom of the heap since all other greenskins hate them the most.I agree that they'd be at the bottom of the heap among greenskins as they'd always be regarded with disdain after being 'freed from the Chaos Dwarfs'. My reasoning for putting the "nothing changes" into the table for siding with Chaos Dwarfs in the event that they also win is that the Hobgoblins wouldn't know for sure that they'd be treated better when they're picking which side to lay their chips with. As it happens the outcome for the Hobgoblins was better than anything in the simplified table... their slave status rose above what it probably had been. It's only with the benefit for hindsight that we would change the entry in the table from "nothing changes" to "become elite slaves of the Dawi Zharr".
cornixt
~N
Giftzwerg:
I think of the Hobgoblins more as Quislings than slaves. They betrayed the greenskins to get a higher status. Probably under black ork rule they would be the second lowest class, below Black Orcs, and orcs, and just above goblins. Instead they are on the top of the greenskin heap, allies to (but inferior to) the Chaos Dwarves. I would agree with Baggronor, it’s a symbiotic relationship
Thommy H:
No, they’re slaves. This is very explicit in the background.
Henroth:
I have a vision very similar to Cornix's. I do not think hobgoblins are simple slaves. Well, their lives are totally spendable to the eyes of Chaos Dwarfs because they are plenty of hobgoblins but they need them... to keep control of other green skins, because of the great numbers of them compared to the few Chaos Dwarfs....I as well to coincide with Cornixt. The Chaos dwarfs they need to a of greenskin intelligent for be foremans :idea and serve as "cannon fodder" in the battles, this is a Hobgoblin.
Hobgoblins are perfect to match Chaos Dwarfs limits so they are indispensable for Chaos Dwarfs society.
Bassman
The Chaos Dwarfs and Hobgoblins they hate, but as well they need.
Bassman:
About the hobgoblin betrayal during the great Black Orc rebellion: I wonder if Chaos Dwarfs suggested some “advantages” to hobgoblins to get their favour. Imagine someone inside the inner circle of Sorcerers, in a desperate attemp to turn the tide during the siege, suggested to blamish the hoboglins with a great reward if they betray the other greenskins. Knowing how snecky are the hobgoblins chieftains, I’m pretty sure they raised the bait! When the rebellion was over Chaos Dwafs rewarded hobgoblins… with slavery again 
only a little bit over the other greenskins… that’s why everybody hate them. Up to today hobgoblins are bound to Chaos Dwarfs because everybody hate them and Cds need them to control lesser slaves…
Baggronor:
I would agree with Baggronor, it's a symbiotic relationship
No, they're slaves. This is very explicit in the background.I don't see the two as mutually exclusive, the CDs do need the hobgoblins, its just not in their nature to be nice about it.
Patrikson:
Even if the Hob goblins sided with the Green skinned hordes they’re will be Plenty of Hob goblins still on the Chaos dwarves side i mean Chaos Dwarves have the Technolgy who knows maybe they can clone them
Thommy H:
I don't see the two as mutually exclusive, the CDs do need the hobgoblins, its just not in their nature to be nice about it.No, I agree. It's just that people seem to be a bit confused about their status sometimes - they're not allies, they're slaves. They just don't have to toil like other slaves. And because of that, the Chaos Dwarfs need them.
Baggronor