Nicodemus:
Week 5: Bull Centaur Renders
Welcome to the fifth chapter in the Daemonsmith’s Handbook! Please post your Bull Centaur Render tips and tactics here.
Note that the Bull Centaur Taur’ruk Hero will be included in a future thread.
Some suggested topics for discussion:
- How to equip your units
- Ideal unit size and number of units
- Tactics
- Which characters/items work best with Bull Centaur Renders
Discoking:
Blocks of 3, flank protection.
Armed with GW.
Great in tandum with Big blocks of Hobgoblin Wolf Raiders/ a Destroyer.
Bigger blocks of 5+ with a BC Hero in them for shock charges.
Bolg:
Gleaming Pennant on them, Magic Banner of 5 points makes them reroll first failed LD test and as they ‘only’ have LD 8 and are usally away from the gereral and BSB is a must buy.
If in a unit of 3-4 only put them 2 wide, saves on frontage ans you dont lose attacks.
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I personally always run them in units of 6 (greatweapons full command + Gleaming Pennant) and run them over the flank. they tend to eat up a lot of other flanking units and monsters making full use of their M7.
I only wish they had Black shard armour (:
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Blackspine:
I view them as delivery engines for the hero. Which is a diff thread.
They’re great, un-stompable, decent LD, resilient troops.If you get something that relies on Thunderstomp (vargulf) then you can tear into it.
The standard of discipline works wonders on them, making them a bit more independent of the general (bsb helps) and means they can take advantage of their relatively high M. value
Equipped with the flaming banner, they can act as anti-regen/ anti monster hunters. Causing fear in cav/ warbeasts on the flank is actually pretty nifty. Not only that, but you can detach/ charge out your hero, if you DON’T want the flaming attacks.
Heavy armor and shields make them quite durable for shooting/ CC and GW’s mean they have a serious punch, but lose the shields in CC…but with a 3+ as and high T, that may not matter as long as you don’t frontal charge any elite units.
Grimbold Blackhammer:
As a Dark Elf player, I compared Bull Centaurs to Cold One Knights and I was surprised what I found. And I love my Cold One Knights!
I considered a Bull Centaur, which have exactly twice the base size of a standard cavalry model to see how they would compare. Frontage-wise Centaurs are only 2/3rds the cost of a Cold One Knight. Both cause Fear and both have a move of 7. The knights have a slightly better save but at T5 the Centaurs definitely have the advantage there. They both hit at ST6 though Centaurs strike last and the knights usually first. Even though the Centaurs hit with ST6 every round, I give the edge to Cold One Knights on that front. Dark Elves have Hatred but Centaurs get to stomp and have easy access to Hatred themselves so that’s a tie. And while the knights are Immune to Psychology, Centaurs can actually flee a charge so maybe a slight edge to the knights there. In the end, the real difference (to me!) is that knights have 1 extra point of leadership. And that is not worth all those extra points. Especially when you consider a unit of Bull Centaurs are often just a character delivery system (which brings the leadership back to a tie). Thinking of Bull Centaurs as medium cavalry, they do alright and seem well priced!
I usually run 3 Centaurs with a character. When the character and the champion are in the front rank, a challenge wipes out half the attacks coming in and limits the amount of wounds that can be done. I give the character the Crown of Command to make the unit Stubborn and suddenly that’s a tough tarpit to get rid of plus the versatility the unit needs to make them truly valuable.
Grimbold Blackhammer
propervillanz:
Bull Centaurs are pretty stinking awesome. I prefer to run them in a unit of 3 or 6 with extra hand weapons or great weapons. T5 with a 3+ is awesome and pretty survivable.
I like units of 3 for chaff/gun line/war machine hunters using Bolg’s advice with the Gleaming Pennant. Extra hand weapons because you can never have enough attacks in my opinion, especially with small units.
I like the units of 6 for tar pits with a bite/flankers. Again T5 with a 3+ is pretty durable and 12 S6 attacks followed by 3-4 stomp attacks at S4 can take a bite out of crime and an enemy unit. However, you need to be carful about who you charge/get charged by, as they are easily bit as well.
A plus with fielding these guys is that you can feel confident fielding multiple units of Wolf Raiders in units of 5 or more. This way you will avoid all but the first panic test (if you vanguard) and the synergy between both units is the epitome of harmony.
burock:
BCs are one of our most versatile units. you must have a specific role in your mind when adding them to your roster; because their role will dictate pretty much everything about them from unit size to equipment.
before i start, i have to say this: BCs are not deathstar material! dont try to turn them into deathstars with BC heroes or drafting them in high numbers etc. Here are some roles that i can think of for them:
Destroyer deliverer
Destroyer must arrive where it is needed quickly, that’s the way to success for LoA lists. To prevent the destroyer from being blocked by chaff, a small BC unit can accompany the destroyer to drive them away. Another requirement for this role is to act as screens for cannonballs, taking one for the team (well, for the destroyer here actually).
This role can be fulfilled by wolf riders too, but their animosity might pose a problem here. also, not being able to stop the cannonballs like BCs do (being monstrous and whatnot) is another strong point for BCs here.
Keep the pts value of the BC unit as low as you can. no command needed (ok maybe a muso for easy manouvres), no equipment. they are just there to deliver the destroyer.
Unit Size: 3
Equipment: doesn’t matter; but I recommend GW for the extra punch when/if needed.
Deployment: near the destroyer to support its advance.
Hero Deliverer
As advised in above posts, a BC unit might be used to “carry” a BC hero behind enemy lines to wreak havoc there. especially profitable when you face enemies with many WMs; but generally i imagine that it won’t be very successful, other than some specific enemy builds.
Plan is simple: deploy the BCs centrally, just leaning to right or left a little. advance a little, just enough for the hero to spring itself from the unit. then the BCs should evac the area asap, to prevent handing the enemy easy VPs. they might try to hunt chaff after that though.
The important thing about this role is that you have to be careful that the BC hero is not sniped. the look out sir rule needs 5 RnF models to work, so every BS shooting you receive here will be distributed, every template will potentially hit the BC hero. Here you have to consider handing the hero a charmed shield.
Again, keep the pts value of the BC unit as low as you can. no command needed (ok maybe a muso for easy manouvres), no equipment. they are just there to deliver the hero. You must kit the hero for your needs though.
Unit size: 3
Equipment: doesn’t matter; but I recommend GW for the extra punch when/if needed. Don’t forget to give a charmed shield to BC hero.
Deployment: Central right or left. They need the space to be able to declare flee when needed.
Regiment-like Usage
You can use a relatively bigger sized unit of BCs as a regiment. In this role, you need to think them exactly like another infantry unit. They must be deployed and moved to support your other infantries; but at an arms length maybe, due to their higher move. Keep them in the bubble of your general and BSB; just like any other infantry unit and watch the harmony of your units kick in.
You might consider adding a hero -with stubborn crown-; but the unit might get quite expensive that way. the equipment for your BCs will depend on what you will face: if you expect to face low To, low AS troops, you might need the extra HW; but otherwise I recommend GWs again. Since this regiment is essentially an infantry unit, you ll need full command here.
Unit size: 6
Equipment: GW generally, xHW if you plan to send them against low To, low AS troops.
Deployment: Deploy them in a way that they will perform in harmony with other infantries.
Flank Bash
Sounded like Franklin & Bash, heh… the idea here is simple: Deploy a unit to a flank. Depending on the size, they can act as an anchor on one flank, a shock troop for flank charge threats or go WM hunting if they are allowed to.
Unit Size: 3-6 (3 for WM hunting duties, up to 6 for other roles)
Equipment: Again, generally GW. Consider getting a standard bearer with Gleaming Pendant on it since they will operate outside the general/BSB bubble by default. A muso is also worth considering due to the need for manoeuvrability.
Deployment: Flanks, geez… 
just my two cents…
eudaimon:
Thank you, this thread is really helpful.
I have yet to be won over by BCs, but see them having uses. I will be playing with them a lot more over the next few months.
brother_cov:
Ive played BC Renders a few times so far and Im yet to be impressed by their abilities…perhaps thats due to my opponent focussing everything he has on wiping them out ASAP!
Saying that, i have a love for the angry bull dudes so I will always take a unit when Im playing my beloved Chaos Stunties!
brother_cov:
This may be a stupid question so i apologise in advance, but I see that its mentioned in above posts that BCs have a 3+ AS…how is that?
I thought their save would be 4+.
Sorry if its a silly question.:o
burock:
This may be a stupid question so i apologise in advance, but I see that its mentioned in above posts that BCs have a 3+ AS...how is that?scaly skin (5+) combined with heavy armor makes their save 3+ by default.
I thought their save would be 4+.
Sorry if its a silly question.:o
brother_cov
brother_cov:
DOH!! ThanksThis may be a stupid question so i apologise in advance, but I see that its mentioned in above posts that BCs have a 3+ AS...how is that?scaly skin (5+) combined with heavy armor makes their save 3+ by default.
I thought their save would be 4+.
Sorry if its a silly question.:o
brother_cov
burock
Groznit Goregut:
I have to admit that T5 with a 3+ AS is tough! I was hit by a wolf chariot and was thinking it was quite bad. I maybe took a wound? Or they all bounced off armor! Some bad rolling, sure, but I was quite happy about the situation! I was able to smash it with Great Weapons.
What about an idea about pinning a unit in place for the K’Daai Destroyer? It’s especially good with the Stubborn Crown. The Bull Centaurs are a lot faster than the K’Daai and there are a number of things that will just try to avoid our big beasty. So, why not just charge with the BC and pin them in place until the Destroyer can amble up.