Da Crusha:
Can one use a Hellcannon in a CD army if using RH rules?nope.
Dr.Mojo
MLP:
Hi all, just thought I’d let you know the new rules for the Hellcannon in the newly released Warriors of Chaos book are basically the same as before except it gains a 5+ ward.
Blackspine:
hopefully, ours listed in book stays cheaper.
Da Crusha:
@MLP: sounds cool. do you have a link? do you know about the point cost?
MLP:
Basically from a guy who’s got and read the new book already on warseer(so take with some salt) I think the points are the same, which would make sense as otherwise they’d have conflicting points values.
Edit: Aparrently it’s weapon is now classed as a shooting attack and it stays as monster and handlers.
Ironmonger:
I’m kinda surprised after looking through these daemosnsmith Handbook threads that no one posted anymore about the Hellcannon after it came out in the WoC book. The big issue was the movement nerf, cutting it in half from 6 to 3. Ugh. This makes the HC go from a veritable no-brainer in a good number of lists to questionable/sometimes, as it’s efficacy as a big scary moveable monster has been hamstrung.
Geist:
While its movement has been made horrid, it still serves as a good piece of arty. Also once some one does close with you, you can let the beast charge. Its reclassification as a monster and handler now makes it much easier to actually have it charge some one. Where before you had to wait for it to go wild. Which on LD9 is not exactly an easy task.
lukealexandermorton:
Are you kidding it now has magical attacks with shots plus 5 ward save so has now got 3 saves Er …5 pts increase it is by far still a no brainer lol
Ironmonger:
While its movement has been made horrid, it still serves as a good piece of arty. Also once some one does close with you, you can let the beast charge. Its reclassification as a monster and handler now makes it much easier to actually have it charge some one. Where before you had to wait for it to go wild. Which on LD9 is not exactly an easy task.True enough about the reclassification as a Monster. Yes, I still think it is effective as a piece of arty, and if someone is silly enough to get close enough (which, if locking down a flank, could happen quite often!), they're going to have a bad time of it. I just see it's overall utility going down somewhat-not to nothing, or even bad, mind you-but enough that as often as not in a LoA list points can be spent elsewhere.
Geist
PS You don't own a handcannon, do you?;)
Are you kidding me? It now has magical attacks with its shots, 5+ ward save... so now it has 3 saves, all for an... er... 5 pts increase?! It is by far a no brainer still, so lol!I did my best to clean up your post. No, I'm not kidding you, it's not a no-brainer, but is still a decent shooty, crunchy monster. In my opinion, while still an above-average choice, in a LoA list there are other options that do just as good in their roles as the HC did when it could be offensive, and the LoA (in my opinion, of course) is generally all about the offense, and being aggressive. The M3 vs M6 was a painfully debuff on the unit, and almost every list I've made since the WoC book has come out, that decrease in speed has been the deciding factor in choosing other pieces over it.
lukealexandermorton
Geist:
I own many handcannons, none of them are to scale or real though.
I agree to a point with you about the hellcannon.
Is it worth taking, yes and no. Is it a great model stat wise very much so. Problem is though, is there a better buy in the book?
Kinda depends on what you want to do. I am thinking of going back to a dreadquake, only because it cost 5more points (with slave orge) and its shots do soo much. Of course a hellcannon can be used to fight where a dreadquake cant. It really is a hard choice to make.
Da Crusha:
Of course a hellcannon can be used to fight where a dreadquake cant.for me this is the biggest factor and makes it an obvious better choice over the dreadquake. the shooting damage is comparable.
Geist
rpitts2004:
Yeah but with the dreadquake you can dish out way more damage. Any horde units having to take 40 difficult terrain tests is huge.Of course a hellcannon can be used to fight where a dreadquake cant.for me this is the biggest factor and makes it an obvious better choice over the dreadquake. the shooting damage is comparable.
Geist
Da Crusha
Marduk:
And the dreadquake miniature looks much better!Yeah but with the dreadquake you can dish out way more damage. Any horde units having to take 40 difficult terrain tests is huge.Of course a hellcannon can be used to fight where a dreadquake cant.for me this is the biggest factor and makes it an obvious better choice over the dreadquake. the shooting damage is comparable.
Geist
Da Crusha
rpitts2004
Da Crusha:
and the hellcannon can also cause the unit to flee off the table due to panic, that is huge also. combined with doom and darkness will dramatically increase the chances.Yeah but with the dreadquake you can dish out way more damage. Any horde units having to take 40 difficult terrain tests is huge.Of course a hellcannon can be used to fight where a dreadquake cant.for me this is the biggest factor and makes it an obvious better choice over the dreadquake. the shooting damage is comparable.
Geist
Da Crusha
rpitts2004
noone:
how exactly does the hellcannon work in close combat? does it charge like a chariot and then get thunderstomp + the 5 attacks in its profile?
The Immortal Beard:
how exactly does the hellcannon work in close combat? does it charge like a chariot and then get thunderstomp + the 5 attacks in its profile?The Hellcannon is a monster with handlers.
noone
It charges normally like any other monster 2d6+base movement, unless the leadership test at the start of a turn is failed in which case it has random movement 3d6 (if you make contact with that nearest enemy it is treated as charging) for that player turn.
It gets thunderstomp in CC with war beasts, swarms, and infantry just like anything else with the rule.
In close combat you get the attacks of the Hellcannon, plus the swings of the dwarfs, and thunderstomp at the end of the CC assuming it can stomp the right troop types.
Enemies attacking the Hellcannon roll to attack and wound against the Hellcannon (not the dwarfs). Take your AS and Ward normally. If any wounds get through, roll 1d6. On a 1-4 the wound comes off the Hellcannon. On a 5-6 one of your dwarf crew are removed. When all the dwarfs die in either CC or because your Hellcannon ate them, you have to take a monster reaction test to see what happens. If the Hellcannon dies before all of it's dwarfs...remove all from play.
Hope that about sums it up.
noone:
yes mate thank you
This message was automatically appended because it was too short.
Jasko:
Lots of stuff to unpack here:hmmm I found the FAQ about it.Why would you think that? the spell is specifically cast on a model, not the unit, and it is not forcing a leadership test.The FAQ which talks of what an unmodified leadership test is. It's not well written but many people think that it means that you can take the best value for every unmodified leadership, no matter if it's an unmodified leadership TEST or an unmodified leadership (such for spirit leech)
For the initiative test, you can now take the I2 of the dwarfs...
Finally, don't forget that the hellcannon causes a -1 panic test for every unit touched, even if it doesn't inflict any wound...
zhatan87Q: When taking a Leadership test, sometimes you have to take it onhmm that is a silly ruling. well I suppose the unmodified LD value of the hellcannon is 9.... it doesn't make sense to me but it most certainly makes him better.
your unmodified Leadership. What is your unmodified Leadership?
(p10)
A: Your unmodified Leadership is the highest Leadership
characteristic in the unit. So the Leadership from any
characters in the unit itself (but not from outside the unit, from
Inspiring Presence for example) with a higher Leadership can
be used unless specifically stated otherwise.
Warhammer FAQ 1.6
Da Crusha
1) First of all: Rulebook p73, "Monsters & Handlers". "The handlers aren't really a combat per se, so we ignore them for most gaming purposes, treating the monster itself as the extent of the unit." That means that the handlers are not really a part of the unit
2) Rulebook Errata
So yes, if the Hellcannon would be forced to take a leadership test, like it has to do every turn for the Cage Fury rule, you use LD9.
Q: If a Monster and Handlers unit is required to take a characteristic test, which values can you use? (p73)
A: You can only use the monsters characteristics; the handlers are ignored for this purpose.
Q: When the models in a unit with the Monster and Handlers special rule have different Movement Allowances, which one decides how far the unit can move? (p73)
A: The monsters Movement Allowance is used.
Q: If a Monster and Handlers unit is required to take a Leadership test, which Leadership value can you use? (p73)
A: You must use the highest.
Q: When taking a Leadership test, sometimes you have to take it on your unmodified Leadership. What is your unmodified Leadership? (p10)
A: Your unmodified Leadership is the highest Leadership characteristic in the unit. So the Leadership from any characters in the unit itself (but not from outside the unit, from Inspiring Presence for example) with a higher Leadership can be used unless specifically stated otherwise.
Q: Do units benefit from their General�?Ts Inspiring Presence for the purposes of spells that use Leadership, such as Spirit Leech or Okkam�?Ts Mindrazor? (p107)
A: Yes.
Errata
3) Spirit Leech: It is not a Leadership test. It's a D6 and you add the Leadership.
So, Spirit Leech on Hellcannon is done on LD4. Unless it is in the General's LD Bubble, then you use his. (which, imho, makes zero sense, because the wording of Spirit Leech with the "unmodified leadership" is exactly what is meant in the fourth FAQ but then immediately countered by the fifth, but the spell is specifically named in the FAQ)