[Archive] Warhammer: Army of Cathay

Wolf :

All,

When reading through the fluff in the Tamurkhan, it mentioned the armies of Cathay.

Since then I’ve been wandering if GW would release an army book for Cathay.  If so would I collect them.

Also for your information, below is a link to an unofficial Cathay army book, which has been beautifully put together.

http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/30816182

Bloodbeard:

Don’t think we’ll see any Cathay army. Nor Nippon, Araby or Ind. Only the small hints from magic items and ogre maneaters.

Even though there is of cause an araby army for warmaster.

And those armies not being made, that’s no problem for me. Never really given much for those cultures.

Baggronor:

Its a fine line to tread between making something really cool and an insulting caricature. GW making armies based on Arthurian legend or European culture is fine - the majority of the target market knows the subject matter well already - but doing something using a radically different culture is a bit of a minefield. If they do something that fits the predominantly European gamer audience’s idea of ‘Asian’ or ‘Arabic’, its likely going to be a hideous caricature; if they do something in-depth that is based on actual cultural and historical references, it could be impenetrable to the average European gamer. They’ll need to hit the creative sweet spot in-between. I’m sure they could do it, but its much easier and safer to re-release an existing army again. I’m not sure how much demand there would be for them - lots of people think they’re cool but that’s not the same as being ready to buy a whole army of them.

I would certainly collect a Nippon army. I’ll probably do them as a counts-as Empire army at some point anyway.

torn:

I agree with baggronor in that you could play counts as empire. The empire has so many similar units, men are men, in different styles of clothes. What could gw do for a far east army of men that would make it suitably different from both armies of men they already do? I’m sure the models would sell OK, but right now you can use historical! Chinese or Japanese and make Cathay and Nippon very easily.

Abecedar:

I’ll also have to agree with all those above. I don’t see GW or FW verturing into Cathay any time soon.

Interesting and nicely done army book though.

Helblindi:

Personally, I don’t care much for Asian cultures in general (is that racist?). Add to that the fact that I feel it’s kind of a waste when you pick a human army in a fantasy world so richly populated with all kinds of creatures and monsters. So no, I wouldn’t be interested in a Cathay army.

Admiral:

I’d like to see Cathay eventually from GW, but it would have to be made right, and I don’t mean just a matter of mere caricature-sensitivities. I could imagine FW being the perfect agent to take dives into the eastern lands of the Warhammer world. They’re small scale, they’re professional, they get details right. The interest in a Cathay army might understandably not be high enough for an army book, but definitely for a Forgeworld range.

If nothing else, the Ogre Kingdoms gave such promising glimpses eastwards that it’d be worth it for the Ivory Road campaign if nothing else. For army books I think Chaos Dwarfs would have higher priority. Especially since the Empire’s army list have been tailored with rockets and even a dragon IIRC to allow for Cathay-proxies.

Willmark:

It’s never going to happen. Rumors have been swirling about eastern armies since the late 80s.

That’s why I’m making my own Nippon force, I don’t need GWs say so.

Kera foehunter:

and when gw make a great army … they throw it away … the just plain suck at it… they rather promote elves:mad:mad:mad

Wolf :

To be honest, I’m not thinking of another human based army their are lots of examples;

Lizardmen: South America

High elves: England

Mongolia: ogre kingdoms

France: brittonians

Russia: chaos dwarfs

Eastern Europeans: dwarfs

Germans: warriors of chaos

In summary I believe Cathy could be another race.

Thoughts?

torn:

To be honest, I'm not thinking of another human based army their are lots of examples;

Lizardmen: South America

High elves: England

Mongolia: ogre kingdoms

France: brittonians

Russia: chaos dwarfs

Eastern Europeans: dwarfs

Germans: warriors of chaos

In summary I believe Cathy could be another race.

Thoughts?

Wolf
Mostly there, although england is Albion in the war hammer World and the empire is definitely renaissance germany. they even use German words for things like mountains and stuff.

I think the older the war hammer World gets the more it moves away from the real world.

Dînadan:

To be honest, I'm not thinking of another human based army their are lots of examples;

Lizardmen: South America

High elves: England

Mongolia: ogre kingdoms

France: brittonians

Russia: chaos dwarfs

Eastern Europeans: dwarfs

Germans: warriors of chaos

In summary I believe Cathy could be another race.

Thoughts?

Wolf
Going to disagree with a lot of this.

Lizardmen: yep Myan-Incan-Aztec mishmash

High Elves: nope they're more Ancient Greece/Atlantis

Ogre Kingdoms: I think Hobgoblins are a better Mongol analog. Ogres do have the facial hair of Mongols but that's it really - there's no massed cavalry in the Ogre culture which is a major aspect of Mongols (or at least Mongols as interpreted by Europeans). I'm not an expert on Mongol culture so there might be some subtleties that have been borrowed for the Ogres, but overall I think Ogres just represent generic barbarians sitting on the major East-West land trade routes.

Bretonians: yes, but specifically medieval France with a dash of Arthurian Romance.

Chaos Dwarfs: way off. Chaos Dwarfs are a mishmash of Babylonians, Assyrians and other Ancient Messopotamian cultures with Mordor thrown in. The Russian analog in Fantasy is Kislev.

Dwarfs: nope. They're Tolkien Dwarves with some Scandinavian elements thrown in (widely erronious stereotypes in the case of horned helmets).

Warriors of Chaos: again nope - the German analog (specifically Renessance Germany) is the Empire. Warriors of Chaos are a mishmash over various 'barbarian' elements. Norscan Marauders are exaggerated Vikings and other marauder tribes are inspired by various ancient barbarian tribes. The Warriors themselves don't have a direct real world analog I believe; they're just generic evil warriors/knights.

You've also missed out Tileans who are Renessance City State Italy; Sartoga which is generic pirates; Arabay which is generic Arabic cultures with Arabian Nights elements; Albion which is Celtic Briton; Tomb Kings who are Ancient Egypt (but dead); Orcs and Goblins and Beastmen who are generic barbarians; Marienburg which is Rennessance Netherlands. Probably more that I'm forgetting about (such as the various influences on each Empire province that set them apart from each other).

Wolf :

Cool, should of set up a separate post just discuss people’s opinions of where these armies may or may not originate from.

Thanks Dinadan much appreciated, I now have a better grasp of the workings behind the madness which is Warhammer fantasy.

What about Skaven, Dark Elves, Wood Elves and of course Vampire Counts.

Dînadan:

Don’t think Skaven really have a direct real world companion.

Dark Elves I believe are just evil High Elves with generic sea raider elements thrown in. They also like in an exaggeration of Northern Canada climate wise.

Wood Elves don’t have a human analog but are instead based on European folk lore of the Fae Folk (think fairy tales before they were sanitised and became cutesy; so back when they were dark and brutal and were all about mind raping/scaring kids to prepare them for how harsh/crappy and brutal real life was)

Vampire Counts, generically are bog standard undead with shades of Vampire films thrown in (Von Carstein are Dracula, Lahmians are seducrtruss vampires, Necarchs are Nosferatu vampires, etc). But other than that don’t really have a direct real world analog; possibly have shades of Renessance Germany what with Sylvania being an Empire Province.

Wolf :

Thanks Dinadan: I recall watching hellboy golden army which touched on similar vain of the dark and beautiful woodland realm. Very interesting and cool.

I wander if Von Carstein counts his gold like “one hahaha two hahaha three hahaha”.

Dînadan:

I wander if Von Carstein counts his gold like "one hahaha two hahaha three hahaha".

Wolf
Well he is based on Bram Strokes Dracula, which is based on Vlad the Impaler who comes from an area where the vampire mythology has vampires have OCD where they're compelled to count things if I recall correctly...

;)

Baggronor:

Dark Elves are placed in what would be Canada but are ancient Greece in terms of their roots - the original sculpts looked like Spartans, with large round shields, the plumes on the helmets, etc. You can still see this influence in the Hydra and the Gorgon.

In summary I believe Cathy could be another race.

Thoughts?
Cathay is mentioned many times as being a human civilisation though.

Though back in 6th, Alessio mentioned he had ideas for Cathayan undead, though he was referring to a Vampire bloodline. I think there were also rumours that the Cathayan Emperor was in fact a Vampire as he is supposedly immortal.