I know what it looks like and where it’s from… but I feel that before writing the rules for one it would be important to establish it’s characteristics in a more abstract manner.
Juggernaut: A siege toweresque war machine with multiple levels. It possesses a fortified front-plate with two small bore cannons. It is propelled in some manner (previously by a single Boar Centaur). Chaos Dwarfs armed with crossbows use it’s decks to survey terrain and also as a firing platform.
It’s closest living WHFB relative is the Stegadon, I believe, which is a large monster with a bolt thrower on the back.
Unit type: Definitely a War Machine, but given it’s spiked prow it was probably intended to be an Impact-hit causing machine. The two small bore cannons most resemble the light cannons used by Bronzino’s Galloper Gun battery, and are clearly intended to be fired on the move. The lack of traverse would limit their targets though. The only external crew member possessed by the Juggernaut is the Boar Centaur pushing it. Having a centaur pushing it just doesn’t fit well with the current army look, but it’s a nice option to have. I prefer daemonic combustion/steam myself.
So, it’s a war machine with internal crew (primarily), that can deal impact hits. Obviously it’s also a large target ( a benefit to the CDs on the ramparts). Move and fire cannons are a must, but it may also be beneficial to give them a rule not unlike the Blunderbussiers, but with a longer range.
A Juggernaught doesn’t have to have Crossbow-armed crewmen, but they are useful. I’d prefer to keep the option open for those who do own an original, but mine are more likely to use Blunderbusses. The buying of extra levels feature I’ve seen in some rules is excellent, especially for those converting one up for themselves.
In summation, the Juggernaut is a War Machine that fights like a Chariot (but without it’s vulnerabilities), possesses move and fire cannons, and internal crew members (who are probably killed like multiple riders on monsters) that are generally equipped with some sort of ranged weapon.
Bottom Level - Forward facing cannon (Think Dwarf or DOW type) and 2 Swivel Guns. Can only shoot forward (45 degree line of sight) Crew of 5
Top Level - 4 Swivel guns and a Mortar (Earthshaker/Death Rocket) they have 360 line of sight. Crew of 7
It they want the 3rd level (Middle) I would have 4 swivel guns. Crew of 4
Pushed by 2 Iron Rhinoxes (one on each side)
Rules
D6+1 Impact hits at S5 for Juggernaut.
If charge is over 7 inches Each Iron Rhinox causes D3 impact hits at it’s basic Strength
Cannon S8 36 inch range. If Cannon Misfires and blows up Juggernaut takes D3 S8 Hits
Earth Shaker 12-48 inches Same misfire rule as for Cannon.
If crew of Cannon or Mortar are killed swivel gun operators can choose to man the war machines.
Only crew on bottom level can attack in CC
Shooting must roll to see if they hit Juggernaut or Warmachine 1-3 Juggernaut 4 Iron Rhinox 5 Mortor 6 Cannon. If they hit a war maching they have to roll as usual to see if they hit the machine or crew.
Swivel Guns: S4 36 inch range, Snipers (can target heroes in unit and ignore look out sir rule) Can stand and shoot. Since Upper level Swivel guns are not in combat have no negatives when standing and shooting (lower ones do suffer penalties) and can shoot when in combat.
Upper Level Mortar can shoot when base in combat.
Iron Rhinox has steam attack
Large target (NO KIDDING)
Terror
M WS BS S T W I A LD
Juggernaut - - - 5 7 8 - - -
Cannon - - - - 7 3 - - -
Mortar - - - - 7 3 - - -
Iron Rhinox 7 4 0 6 5 5 2 5 9
CD Crew 3 4 3 3 4 1 2 1 9
I know, I’m crazy. I blame Hashut. :hashut
With all this you are talking 600 point RARE unit.
0-1 Choice takes up 2 rare slots.
But you can say to your opponent “It’s the Juggernaut, (Rhymes with Witch).” :cheers:hat off
Plus I’d make it that the top level can have a hero (Sorcerer) on it.
Pyro’s rules are cool, but come on, everybody would love to have the monstrosity I described in a 4000+ point game. I wouldn’t allow it in a game under 3000.
The problem I have with Pyro’s rules is the section with all the options. I think there are too many available upgrades; they make the rules look clunky and unmanageable. The other problem is that they don’t allow much for a more modern conversion (w/out Boar Centaurs and Crossbows). I’d like to somehow develop some relatively simple rules with a few options that at the same time has the flexibility to be used as the original Juggernaut or a modern, self-propelled/Troll/Rhinox/etc… propelled tower…
I like the Rhinox (or Iron Rhinox) powered Juggernaut. Powered by Troll(s) is to Lord of the Rings and Self Propelled is too Empire Steam Tank.
Swivel guns would be more fitting than Crossbow (since the current Chaos Dwarf list doesn’t have Crossbows). I would like the swivel guns to be like one of the following.
Empire/Dwarf Handgun (S4 24 inch range)
More powerful Blunderbus (S4 with Flame Templet or 18 inch long 2 inch wide templet)
Hochland Long Rifle (S4 36 inch range, SNIPERS)
My idea was a little over the top (2 Iron Rhinoxes, Minimum 6 Swivel guns, Cannon and Earth Shaker) but why not go over the top.
The problem I have with Pyro's rules is the section with all the options. I think there are too many available upgrades; they make the rules look clunky and unmanageable. The other problem is that they don't allow much for a more modern conversion (w/out Boar Centaurs and Crossbows). I'd like to somehow develop some relatively simple rules with a few options that at the same time has the flexibility to be used as the original Juggernaut or a modern, self-propelled/Troll/Rhinox/etc... propelled tower...
Astranagant
I made those rules with the original model in mind. I didnt make them to allow for conversions. All i had to go on when i wrote them was the pic of it and the rules for the warhammer Siege Tower. TBH i didnt give it that many options. All there was was the option for extra towers (since you could buy extra towers from gw at the time i thought it would be good to have a rule for it), and skins of the foe which i just added for fun while looking through my Tomb Kings book. The rules you are suggesting would be for something altogether different from the Juggernaut so should be given a different name if you ever make those rules (ive got an excellent name but you will have to wait to findout what it is. I dont want anyone stealing it). Juggernauts are Supposed to have crossbowmen and boar centaurs. I will probably write up rules for a larger version of the Juggernaut that i am going to add to a short story about the beginnings of the Juggernaut and Snakebeards commisioning to build it.
Thank you, but why not have the Juggernaut pushed by one Chaos Giant? I thnik that would be so cool!
Scion
I dont think Chaos Giants fit in with the Chaos Dwarf style/fluff/everything. Maybe if the chaos dwarfs were still a part of the chaos army but then it would be weird to have boar centaurs pushing the whirlwind and tenderiser and not the juggernaut.