Cast your vote and post your reasons. Discuss! :cheers
Cast your vote and post your reasons. Discuss! :cheers
I think ogres for this, with the new rules about monstrous support rule allowing the whole back rank to attack with 3 attacks each and the monstrous infantry rule which means they only have to be 3 wide to get ranks now, chuck this together with the horde rule means that ogres are back in the game, i mean when you can get a unit of 15 iron guts dishing out 6 strength 6 impact hits followed by 46 strength 6 attacks followed by 6 strength 4 stomp attacks there is not allot that is going to be able to stand up to that and live
Imo Skaven. Huge cheap units with high chance of outnumbering the enemy. Thus being stubborn on rather high leadership of 8 to 9. Since stubborn now happens on the leadership of the general plus any modifiers (like the Strenght in numbers rule). And since these units are cheap, you’ll see a lot of them. Making it difficult to flank such a huge army.
On top of this you got all the nasty Skaven surprises it had in previous editions.
The High Elfs, insurance.
RH Chaos Dwarfs 2pt infantry with Ld10 Hero generals (for under 100pts), increased effectiveness of artillery, good magic, decent monsters and affordable troops. Sadly lacking in official-ness.
Other than that, Dwarfs imo; with the new rules for Stone Throwers and Cannons, Dwarfs have the best artillery in the game (damn right too). Their core infantry is cheap enough to be plentiful, has good WS and T and excellent Ld, plus access to great weapons to compensate for low I. Good missile troops, and now that the game is more infantry-centric, the lack of cavalry isn’t much of an issue. Plus they now charge miles It rocks. The only drawbacks are the comparative lack of use for the elites (now that the basic Dwarfs are so good) which may see less Hammerers, Ironbreakers, etc, but that will be addressed when they get a new book. Also, a Dwarf Lord and Runelord on Anvil can turn up at the same time now, even in 2000pts.
I think as number one it´s dwarfs. With a lot of diffrent typs of cannons and regular dwarfs geting harder I think they became much better. Second I think empire, as they got cheap troops that can pretty much do anything.
Ogres. The news rules are practically a full update for them.
Fighting in two ranks effectively, easier to gain rank bonuses, stomp attack, even more items, being able to (depending on the points) take a slaughter master without having to run 3k, butchers possibly having more dice to play with and having bonuses to cast, and some things I probably am forgetting or haven’t thought of. While they won’t be Tier 1 by any means, I think they went from the bottom tier to doing quite well.
I think Empire gained quite a bit too. Better pistols (longer range), no partials with the mortar, 2 ranks of handgunner fire, detachments being more vital to bust ranks, warrior priests making spear or haldberd hordes hitting en masse… lots of good stuff for them too.
what about WoC?
they will now boast 30 attacks with 2 ranks and mark of Khorne.
It’s tough for me to say between Dwarfs and Ogres. Both of them were fairly good before, but I guess from their relative positions the ogres gained considerably more.
Despite what a lot of people say, I wouldn’t say the empire are considerably better than they were before. Sure they have a bit of everything, but not a lot of things in their list were great weaknesses before. So their improvement is not that marked.
Dwarfs on the other hand struggled with SCR, and despite having heavy armour the combats were not spectacular. Now that their armour saves are being tested twice as much, I think it will help to boost them relative to most other core troops. The movement changes are obviously a massive boost to Dwarfs over everyone else, and the shooting rules combined with their runes will be amazing.
Dwarfs or WoC probably. I could possible see Ogres, but they do still have poor Ld and as my Dwarf playing friend says, bring 'em on. His 2 ranks of shooting will do rude things to Ogres. There’ll be no 46 attacks (and that’s assuming a 6 wide unit right? You won’t get them all into contact with a 5 wide Dwarf unit) when he’s finished shooting at them for the circa 2 turns he gets.
O&G for sure. Savage Orcs are somewhat reliable now, as are Savage Orc Boar Boys. Goblins are cheap and can be put in big blocks for the hoard or to make them steadfast. The volley fire rule also helps those big groups of goblin archers and makes Arrer Boys a great block unit. The same can be said for Orcs Boys. The percentages for Lords and Heroes solves the leadership problems that the army may have. The possibility of having 3 Black Orc Lord Choices and 3 Black Orc Characters to quell animosity is excellent. Don’t count out Goblin Hero’s either! Now it is feasible to put a character in each goblin unit for some extra crumpin’. Also since the magic got revised, the Waaaagh spell is way easy to get off! I totally smashed my friend playing WoC with my savage orcs.
Skaven and All Elves because of their Higher Initiative values.
Orcs and Goblins and Skaven for Sheer Numbers.
Empire and Dwarfs for Artillery.
So in my opinion 8th edition was best made for High Elves (Initiative and ASF) and Skaven (Initiative and Sheer Numbers), notice that they are the two in the new starter set.
Now who thinks up to 25% points in Lords and up to 25% Points in Heroes is really a good idea?
RH Chaos Dwarfs :) 2pt infantry with Ld10 Hero generals (for under 100pts), increased effectiveness of artillerythis is exactly what I was going to say. the new steadfast rule makes our cheapest troops into huge tarpits.
the new steadfast rule makes our cheapest troops into huge tarpits.Hobgoblins will make Zombies look totally rubbish at their job :)
Now who thinks up to 25% points in Lords and up to 25% Points in Heroes is really a good idea?On paper, I think its great. The cheaper Heroes could be an issue in some cases. I've tried making a few lists and haven't come up with anything I would consider total silliness just yet, mainly due to the 12 power dice limit. I'm sure there will be something though; I'm looking at Dragonslayer spam at the moment... could be really irritating...
No one has mentioned High Elves properly yet - ASF is now even more valuable, high elf archers and spearmen are now all improved by the new rules, as are their specialist infantry. The Sea Guard are possibly now one of the best units in the game. Field them in a horde of 50 - all five ranks get to attack in CC, meaning 51 attacks. Add to that the 25 stand and shoot attacks you get when charged. If you add Alith Anar or a character with bow of the sea farer you also get a bolt thrower on your stand and shoot (in fact you could add both and get two!) Plus you get the bonus of having the characters in CC too.
Another army that really benefits is the Troll Horde. Add the new monsterous infantry rules, the extended general’s LD range and the fact you can now take plenty of characters to nurse your units and you’ve got much less to worry about on the stupidity front and a hell of a lot more attacks
HEs are much better now, yes, although I think their high points cost, low T is still a decisive factor. Personally I doubt Elf hordes will be popular apart from DE spearmen; the rest just seem too expensive. 50 HEs is dirty in melee, its true, but its also 5-600pts and can still get redirected/fed sacrificial chaff; not to mention the dangers of some spells that hit everyone in the unit :o
Although the killing power of Swordmasters fighting in 2 ranks with re-rolls is just absurd…
Did you real the rules for ASF? It states you can re-roll “failed misses,” aren’t failed misses really hits.
Did you real the rules for ASF? It states you can re-roll "failed misses," aren't failed misses really hits.Lol unleash the RAWers :) they'll have fun with that one
Did you real the rules for ASF? It states you can re-roll "failed misses," aren't failed misses really hits. :DROFL!
It would have been funnier if it stated “Must” instead of “Can”. Imagine playing the HE player and he rolls a bunch of hits and you tell hium he has to re-roll all those hits again. The look would be priceless.
I’m expecting a huge FAQ for the main rulebook very shortly.