Maybe not the best forum for this question, but Ill give it a try since Im curious and I know many of you guys play other armies as well.
We play in a non competitive way in my WFB community. And the folioing senario has been happening… One of my friends plays WoC and Greenskins, in about 10+ games he hasn’t been able to beat dwarves, not once, not even close. They have played each other a lot through the years in later editions as well but with the new Dwarf book its over before they roll the first die.
What usually happens is this, one or two Organ guns with runesmiths more or less kills a unit a turn. The dwarves shut down magic and use some kind of spell breaker rune, in HtH the hammerers/longbeards and lords smash(double S vs T5+/D6 W) through whatever he trows at them. Gyrocopters jumping around and being generally annoying.
For WoC he plays a Slaanesh themed army of about 5000pts and 6-7000pts of Greenskins so he has fair bunch of troops to chose from. Seems like the only way to go is to mount up om ballistas and rock lobbers to destroy the dwarf art, but then there is the shield wall/+1S on charge and hatred.
Personally I haven’t fought dwarves a lot, and didn’t find them that hard at least not with the Tamurkhan list. But any thought on what to do with Warriors of Chaos or Greenskins?
Aside the fact that your Dwarf friend might want to use less warmachines, I reckon that WoC can easily deal with them. Just look at all their fast moving troops: Hounds, mounted Marauders, Daemon Prince / mounted carachters, Wulfrik, Valkia, Juggernauts... On top of that add a very strong magic lore and I can easily see your troops getting to the other side after turn 1.
I’d be interested to see if an MSU approach would be better, maybe combined with some screens. I want to collect a joint CD WoC army so its of particular interest to me as well!
If i was playing against a dwarf gunline and was not making a hard competitive list I would take…
1 Chaos lord with flail, ward save, flame breath, helm of many eyes, and potion of str (one round of str7 attacks and another round of str8 attacks) deployed with the tzeentch block
1 festus
1 unkillable bsb on demonic mount
1 unit of Tzeentch warriors about 20 strong with halberds+shields and the banner of reducing ranged attacks, deployed 1 wide until I am ready to start charging. (1 wide means the only threat is the organ guns but you are reducing the str of those attacks substantially throw in the ironcurse and this unit will not die to shooting)
Another unit of Nurgle warriors deployed 1 wide with festus until I am ready to charge.
2 chariots
One unit of 6 trolls (distraction unit)
2 hellcannons (shoot every turn)
Target his blocks first since when you get into combat you are realisiticly going to have about 2 rounds to get points off of them so you want to reduce them to the point where the chaos lord can wipe them out almost by himself.
Deploying one wide is an extremely unnattractive target to shoot at and the organ guns will be str 3 and give the bsb the ironcurse and your lord unit will have a 5++ ward against whatever goes through.
The other warrior block will likely make it into the dwarves unscathed.
chariots and trolls are their for support.
Id not fight against dwarves with orcs and goblins, but if you do take a savage horde with shaman and shrunken head, max out fantics and manglers. Hand of gork night goblins and manglers into the dwarf lines. Max out on rock lobbas and doom divers leave the chuckas at home.
Lastly, taking two organ guns sounds pretty competitive to me
I fail to see how Orc and Goblins can be beaten on a constant basis by Dwarfs. Dwarfs can have a fair amount of shooting but O&G can just flood the field in targets. Wolf chariots are dirt cheap, pump wagons, cav, squig herds on and on goes the list. If hes loosing the number one reason hes loosing is due to how he fields his army. A bottle neck is what stops O&G the best, wide sweeping advance of targets that either don’t care or have high body count is how he must deploy.
First of all: If it’s a nice and friendly game environment it’s okay to ask the opponent to change his list, “alright, you win with your gun line, can we try something else?”. After that I would go to the internet and find the nastiest lists there is. Both WoC and Orcs have forum too (not nearly as good as ours).
As WoC I would stuck up on tzeenth marks for (+1 wardsaves). with Iron Curse Icon. Then perhaps dedicate a flying, high wardsave, demon prince to take out the bloody warmachines. And try to get off a hit or two with a couple of hell cannons. Depending on how you use Tamurkhan, he could always include a daemonsmith for his cannons. They have a wardsave against cannons and will take them out with a direct hit.
I haven’t played more than one game against OnG in 8th edition. But he can bring a ton of units and a lot of warmachines. I would try to stuck up on as many bolt throwers as possible (that would be 6 at -300 points or 12 at 3000 points). They will only hurt the cannons on a wound roll of 5+ (s6 vs t7), but do d3 wounds. They are cheap as dirt, and a real thread if not targeted by enemy warmachines. And if the enemy targets them, they will not thin down the main battle line of orcs.
A stadium full of night goblins bowmen with a poison banner is also great stuff against a dwarf army.
Cannons are a broken unit in 8th edition. Very cheap, too high strength (the s10 should be an upgrade from s8, perhaps giving -1 on misfire chart), and impossible to hide from (bounches through everything but fences). Not really anything to be done about that.
With woc tzeentch is the best mark against dwarfs. He can load up a lord with 3++ reroll 1’s, soul feeder and stubborn crown and double handed weapon on daemonic mount. Next to him is the bsb with great weapon, scaly skin, armour of destiny for another 1+ 3++. Tzeentch caster in the 2nd rank with ironcurse icon, daemonic mount, ironcurse icon (hope for treason)Add a unit of 11 tzeentch knights with blastard standard. This unit will laugh at his warmachines.
Add a hellcannon for ranged support.
Slaanesh sorcerer lord with hellstriders ablative armour is perfect for choir bombing. He can do this even in combat.
Slaanesh forsaken in 2 units of 5 to hunt warmachines. Noone ever attacks them cause they are so small. They can slip behind his lines.
Death magic is very dangerous for dwarfs. Int tests will be his end. Metal is also sweet against dwarfs. You pretty much have to throw all your dice at one spell every turn against dwarfs.
Trolls and chariots rip up dwarf units.
Skullcrushers in units of 3 with just muso and enscorcelled weapons will take out dwarfs fast.
You know that thing that we do with khans? Orcs and goblins can do cheaper. Other things like troll screens, big guns/black orcs can wreck in cc against not character dwarfs. Lord is less helpful against said units. Savage orc big un horde with shrunken head is dirty here.
Warriors can run usual monster mash list to win. Not enough shooting across possible 3 turns, wrecks in cc. Tzeench with ironcurse icon or blasted standard is silly.
What Bloodbeard and Vantraxx said but Id leave the Hellcannons and Daemonprince at home.
Our groups WoC player eats dwarfs for breakfast. Sorcerer Lord and Sorcerers on Discs can both sling Lore of Metal aswell as take out warmachines in CC easy, then turn around for rear charges. MoT+Ironcurse obviously and BS being short for Blasted Standard says it all. Bring powerstone, channeling staff and forbidden rod then turn our heathen cousins inside out.
