Hashut, Father of Darkness

[Nicodemus]

GW has a community article posted today on Hashut with some nice artwork headlining the article!

Head on over and read up!! Finally we get some background on our patron!

Let us speak of Hashut, the Father of Darkness - Warhammer Community

~N

[Small Update]: There’s another article today (the history of 10 years of AoS) with a brief mention at the very end, that may signal the Helsmiths of Hashut are right around the corner (announcement next week maybe???):

Most pressingly, the Helsmiths of Hashut are on the march at last. These obsessive tyrants have twisted the duardin predisposition for perfection and high craft into an arrogant belief that they can control even the most volatile energies of the Realm of Chaos. Their sights are set firmly on Grimnir’s Firehold, their legions lit by flickering daemonfire as they march on their kin.

What the future holds is anyone’s guess. Dozens of factions are in play, and there is fear that a new Age of Chaos is dawning with the rise of the Skaven and the movement of the Helsmiths of Hashut. We’ll be taking a peek into the future with a final article next week, about what may be coming for the Mortal Realms.

[GDD]

For AoS there is a lot of lore being resolved in this article, with the “Thagduegi” FINALLY being explained in some detail.
However for the WHFB to AoS continuity there is a lot of unclarity here.

It seems this history is retold from the unreliable narration of one of Hashut’s followers, so it is purposefully probably not entirely honest or accurate.
On Rob the “Honest Wargamer”‘s stream it was discussed that this might be an attempt by Hashut to “rewrite history”, with him perhaps trying to trick Dwarfs into believing he was an ancestor god. I personally believe he probably was an ancestor god, because the Thagduegi is something we’ve heard about in Fyreslayers’ lore since 1st Ed AoS. As is the notion that there were more than two ancestor goda alive in AoS’ age of myth.
Other places I have seen people talking about that “becoming a Chaos God retroactively rewrites reality” which they did with Slaanesh, meaning Hashut did become a lesser one in WHFB, but was probably stripped of that by Gorkamorka’s beatdown in the End Times.
Either way they aren’t likely to touch on what the hell was up with Hashut in WHFB, which is incredibly frustrating if I’m honest…

The new lore is cool though! It is probably some lies mixed with truth.
These chronicles touch on Hashut (allegedly) using “beast spirits” in his artifice, and gaining respect for some bull god-beasts he slayed (god-beasts are a big deal in AoS lore).
I think it’s likely that he used their soul’s power when he broke into the forge of souls, and this is where his bull-theme originates in AoS.

As for the release, the winners of that AoS competition are revealed on the 7th, so I am expecting the pre-orders to be out on the 13th!

[ashur]

It’s unfortunate they do not acknowledge the Old World’s existence. They made us acknowledge AoS allusions in the new Old World rulebook. I hope we will get more development in the book. Maybe we will learn this story is true in theory but it happened earlier than the dwarfs think since they do not remember the World that Was.
But at least we now know our father his an Ancestor God. Let’s rewrite our origin stories!

[Nicodemus]

I agree with the sentiments about acting like the Old World doesn’t exist, it was irksome to say the least while reading the short article. Still disappointed it’s going to be an AoS and not ToW release!! Still, they can’t stop me from using the models in ToW and never playing AoS

[Beliman]

There is a lot going on there.

First, being an Ancestor God feels weird, but perfect if you want a bunch of Dwarf/Duardins to follow your teachings.

First statemen:

Fools will tell you that he is a daemon or some other primordial being born in fires older than the realms. We know him for what he is: Hashut, the one true ancestor god.

It’s exactly the opposite of what we know from Tamurkhan: A true Chaos God.

Then, it seems that Hashut is the big brother of the siblings:

None spoke in their elder’s defence.

Btw, Ur-Zorn sounds like Zorn Uzkul, the Great Skull Land. Ur- being a naming for “primitive” or “original” seems a good touch and link with the past.

And then, this paragraph:

Hashut cracked into the Realm of Chaos. He learned to trammel daemonkind. Daring the perils of that nether-place, he quested for the Forge of Souls, where the very essence of creation could be repurposed. There, he seized impossible strength.

There, he transcended his divine status.

For anyone that player Total War Warhammer 3, that’s what Be’lakor want to do,“ascend” using the Forge of Souls. It seems that Hashut and Morathi are the only ones that become true gods by themself.
Another thing to talk about is what did Hashut to control the anger and emotion’s of Grungni and Grimnir? It sounds a bit over Hashut’s powers. Lastly, what was Valaya’s act when she destroyed Hashut’s physical form?

an act so base that none shall speak of it

Everything sounds biased, butso wonderful to see more development for Helsmiths/Chaos Dwarfs.

[Grimstonefire]

That story is a bit wild.

Because it extremely clearly explained that there were no “chaos dwarfs” in the old world. Because only in AoS did he break into the realm of chaos.

Which is a wild view on things, they could’ve explained all of that as being within the Old world, then Hashut survived by being locked away effectively as a prisoner and so survived into AoS.

I love the idea of temple shrines effectively being like massive nuclear weapons caches etc, ungodly strong weapons that we are unsealing.

[Grimstonefire]

Also, from that story it implies that unlike Sigmar, who you could hang out with for a beer, in a literal sense with him standing Infront of you, with Hashut it seems like valaya and grimnir their metaphysical bodies have been shattered

[Beliman]

It should be weird that a random Zharragrim priest knows anything from something that happened before the Age of Myths, more so if what was inscribed in this tablets is just Hashut propagandas.

Btw, even if Hashut’s achieved godhood in AoS, it doesn’t mean that Hashut was not a god in Fantasy:

[Grimstonefire]

I was sort of hoping that metaphysical Hashut still exists.

I know in aos, as it was in old world, that it’s your followers who determine your strength, but having a metaphysical Hashut going toe to toe with Sigmar for a fight is a cool idea

[GDD]

Who are the Helsmiths of Hashut? - Warhammer Community

More lore from a slightly more neutral perspective today!
Also, lots of new art!

@Beliman
It seems more and more likely that he might not be an ancestor god after all? That the opening statement you quoted there is something Hashut wants to convince you is untrue.
The only one who can really dispute this is Grungni himself, but we hear from him so rarely. I expect the truth is probably something that is meant to be contested.

I quite like that the truth seems to be deliberately uncertain.
Either way I am willing to be deceived as a Chorf fan! Hashut is clearly an ancestor god, just look at his big beard, and the fangs, and the horns…
H-he just got juiced up on the souls of god-beast bulls is all!

Etal reekvol ta Zoro-Zull!!!
HASHUT HASHUT HASHUT!!!

[GhraskDragh]

I too enjoyed the ‘claimed’ in this article, you could tell the previous article was a very one sided point of view of the history and possible coming from the mouth of a chaos dwarf

[Anima]

I like how the Lammasus are mentioned

“sorcerous beasts with the heads of duardin elders scheming in the shadows of Hashut’s temples.”

Maybe there will be a new miniature.

[Grimstonefire]

I think if they bring back the lammassu it should only be as an unridden beast.

Something the equivalent of a Lord of Change.

[GhraskDragh]

I’d love to see a centre piece Lammasu mini in the second wave, leaning into the the more priest/defensive army build

[cornixt]

Yes, an unridden Lamassu is very suitable. I’ve been working on a 4th ed-style Army of Infamy that includes an unridden Lamassu as a Rare unit to try to capture the old option of having unridden monsters as a part of the army. I think a unridden taurus might be pushing it.

[Grimstonefire]

Interesting observation. In the realm of AoS, does causality exist?

In the warp in 40k, if you become a god, effectively you were always a god from the dawn of time, because causality doesn’t exist.

However, in Warhammer old world and AoS, mortals can become gods, and god’s can die. So I have to presume that it’s not causality.

Which again supports the fact there was nothing “chaos” at all about Hashut in the old world, the way they’ve written it.

He was a non evil ancestor god throughout all of old world history. Perhaps a little jealous of what grugni, grimnir and valaya were achieving.

It would be interesting actually to explore what exactly he was god of during this time. Logically I guess as he had followers he would’ve represented something the others didn’t. Perhaps unrestricted learning about the “great enemy” i.e. chaos… Learning through grungi and valaya was only ever to a practical end. Not learning for learnings sake. I.e. we were the designated branch of dwarf society dedicated only to the long game.

Non evil extensive learning all about chaos would actually push his followers to the extreme fringe of dwarf society. If we said they only destroyed the hobgoblins during this time, and used diplomacy on certain tribes (but didn’t enslave them until AoS)…?

By this logic all of old world history was tentative steps along the path of what would follow.

My idea generally sort of could work (i.e. earning the academic nickname “chaos” dwarfs even though we were only an eastern dwarf holding with a penchant for big hats and esoteric learning, a cult just dedicated to only one ancestor god).

Except when it comes to anything bull themed, and anything daemonic of course … Which messes up the idea completely, as that didn’t happen until AoS. Unless you explain them as one off experiments?

It’s all a big hot mess really.

[GDD]

@Grimstonefire

Which again supports the fact there was nothing “chaos” at all about Hashut in the old world, the way they’ve written it.

You are confusing age of myth AoS lore with WHFB lore.
AoS does not retcon WHFB lore, it continues writing after it. It can be the case that Hashut was a lesser chaos god in WHFB, but after his fight with Gorkamorka he awakes in AoS to no longer be one. It is also likely that he was an ancestor god at first in WHFB before the coming of chaos changed him, which is what the WHF-RPG hints at.

When the ascended gods in AoS woke up after the destruction of the old world some of them remember almost nothing from it. Nagash is borderline senile in AoS, and doesn’t even remember that he used to be a human! Grungni explains to Grombrindal that he only remembers fragments of the old world.
Either way, thousands of years have passed since the old world was destroyed in AoS, and all the characters that survived awoke completely changed.
My point is that we should assume Hashut was a chaos god in WHFB because we have been told so. And in AoS he only “claims” to have been an ancestor god at first, meaning it is uncertain if he always was a chaos entity or not.
If he was an ancestor god that does mean AoS “reset” his corruption and ascension somewhat from WHFB, which is not crazy compared to what happened to characters like Morathi or Malekith.
The one thing that is clear is that the AoS lore around Hashut is supposed to be a mystery.

[Grimstonefire]

I like that actually

If the “family” of Grungni, Valaya, Grimnir and Hashut (and maybe Gazul) all basically awoke with no memory, with Hashut corruption set back to zero as you said.

Then over time Hashut follows the exact same path he did in the old world, only this time with a “Realm” rather than a geographic area of one planet.

That’s actually a very clean solution.

It would also explain why grungni Valaya and grimnir treat with him as a relative rather than a chaos god. It’s doubly tragic if he had a chance for redemption and still did the exact same thing.

[ashur]

Not bad!

All this made me forget I don’t care much about AoS, only about the implications this could have for Fantasy cds. If Hashut is an Ancestor God, what is the story of his corruption? What if he was the only Ancestor to go to the Darklands? Was he already a lonely figure since he left the ancient holds? Did he blamed his brothers for not coming to assist him when chaos came? Did he performed a travel paralel to Grimnir’s to the chaos gate? Grimnir to close it, Hashut to use it?