Quill's Old World Competitive Journey

Chaos Dwarf Discussion
1

Hi all,

Like many others I’ve chosen the Dawi Zharr as my Old World project.
Been doing some reading and picking out bits, seems we have all of the tools but we pay heavily for them, making choices super important.

For my initial list I’m looking to try to create the survivable threat projection kinda list, forcing opponent to come to me otherwise they be shot and magic blasted. C+C welcome as I always enjoy engaging in discussions and will be writing up my experiences here.

Thinking of trying this next week (If i can get everything printed and based in time)

Heroes:
Sorcerer-Prophet
Darkforged Weapon
Level 4
Lammasu
Armour of Silvered Steel
Lore Familiar
Mantle of Stone
Daemonology

Daemonsmith Sorcerer
Darkforged weapon
Level 2
Daemonology

Infernal Seneschal
BSB - Lammasus Beard
Ruby Ring of Ruin
Hellshard

Core:
18x Infernal Guard
Full command
Fireglaives

10x Infernal Guard
Blunderbusses
Detachment

12x Hobgoblin Cuthroats
Shortbows

Special:
Iron Daemon
Steam Cannonade
Hellbound

Iron Daemon
Steam Cannonade
Hellbound

Rare:
5x Hobgoblin Wolf Riders

Aim is to brick up together with the archers speedbumping cavalry charges and the iron daemons flanking the dwarf infantry. BSB joins the fireglaives, daemonsmith behind and blunderbusses close by to support. Ideally looking to survive fights and terror bomb enemy units while the wolves run around killing warmachine crews and running interference.

3 Likes
2

Cheers mate and welcome!
Yes, Chaos Dwarfs have a really interesting army list with lots of cool options. But, as you said, most of it is quite expensive.

Let’s see, I do have indeed some comments.

  1. First the formal stuff: You need to have a Hobgoblin Khan in your list in order to take a unit of Hobgoblin Wolf Riders.
  2. I would be a little worried about the survivability of your BSB. He has T5 W2 and AS5+, that’s not much. Might want to consider giving him a better Armour Save and/or a Ward Save.
  3. Killing the enemy in the shooting phase and forcing him to come to you is a classic (Chaos) Dwarf tactic. The problem with your list is that you’re not really threat projecting. Your Fireglaives, Shortbows and Iron Daemons are 18", the Blunderbusses only 12". A Dwarf, Empire or Wood Elf army can just sit at 24" and indeed threaten you. Your Iron Daemons would be able to bring the hurt to them, but on their own they will still probably be picked up. For a real strong defensive position I’d suggest Deathshriekers and Dreadquakes, those are the war machines which force your opponent out of hiding.
4 Likes
3

Agree with @Jasko. Additionally, I’m a big fan of the Meteoric Iron Armor for the prophet. The 3+ will oftentimes be lowered a little from here or there. The meteoric armor is static armor save, which I think is nice. + it’s half as expensive. Slap a preservation amulet on him as well, and you’ll feel cozy and safe on that lamassu.

Hellshard on the infernal guard champ for a sneaky suicide challenge bomb (yes, it works :joy:) is awesome.

12 hobo gobbos without a boss and no one around with an overseer’s banner will run at the first sight of trouble. Not worth it.

With no war machines (the iron daemons are heavy chariots) I question the Daemonsmith’s place in this list. He doesn’t contribute much for his points.

Ashen standard is ace on the infernal guard :+1:

3 Likes
4

I’ll echo the suggestions of others.

2 Iron Daemons Isa heavy investment and doesn’t seem to nice with your threat projection concept.

Love seeing the list though. I can’t stop telling my lists for The Old World!

3 Likes
5

I think your detachment cant be more than half the size of the parent unit. The tanks are hard to deal with but they wont win you a game on their own. Id cut a few magic items and a tank for more cds and some artillery. Flying monsters will have too much freedom i think to pick you apart.

The cd list is really hard to get bodies on the battlefied. Im finding it rough to get an army on the table as well as the threats and some protection at 2k points myself

Try your list (with the compulsory hobbo khan etc) tell us how it does. 2 tanks seems fun though

3 Likes
6

Hmm, somehow managed to miss off the Hobgoblin Khan on wolf. My bad, but he was in there.

Thanks all, gonna go back to the drawing board based on the great feedback. I REALLY love the Iron Daemon and kinda feel without two the staying power of the list drops dramatically

1 Like
7

Someone said that a magma cannon on a steam carriage tied to each iron daemon is quite a hoot. Rolling up on the enemy’s flank in your steam tractor with attached flamethrower. Choo choo mfer :steam_locomotive::fire::fire:

It was this person’s experience that such a setup was superior to the rockets and mortars.

2 Likes
8

I mean I 100% want to try the Iron Daemon Magma combo eventually. If that whole carriage hauler thing is going to make any sense at all, and that’s a big if, it’s with a Magma Cannon.

4 Likes
9

I may have just put 2 Magma cannons on a print plate…

Is this terrible? Kinda makes me happy to look at. Its all asking questions of opponents, not sure if itll do well though

++ Characters [586 pts] ++

Sorcerer-Prophet [400 pts]

  • Darkforged weapon
  • Heavy armour
  • Level 4 Wizard
  • General
  • Lammasu
  • Armour of Silvered Steel
  • Lore Familiar
  • Daemonology

Infernal Seneschal [186 pts]

  • Great weapon
  • Heavy armour
  • Shield
  • Battle Standard Bearer [The Lammasu’s Beard]
  • Ruby Ring of Ruin

++ Core Units [514 pts] ++

21 Infernal Guard [354 pts]

  • Fireglaives
  • Heavy armour
  • Shield
  • Deathmask (champion)
  • Standard bearer
  • Musician

10 Infernal Guard [160 pts]

  • Hailshot blunderbluss
  • Heavy armour
  • Detachment

++ Special Units [870 pts] ++

Iron Daemon [310 pts]

  • Steam Cannonade
  • Hand weapons
  • Hellbound

Iron Daemon [310 pts]

  • Steam Cannonade
  • Hand weapons
  • Hellbound

Magma Cannon [125 pts]

  • Fire thrower
  • Hand weapons
  • Heavy Armour

Magma Cannon [125 pts]

  • Fire thrower
  • Hand weapons
  • Heavy Armour
2 Likes
10

I feel like your Prophet costs a lot of points for something with 5 toughness and 3+ armor save… Idk. He does have 6 wounds, so that’s something. With the iron daemons, he won’t be the only target for heavy hitters either. Idk. My ideal lamassu guy would probably look something like this:

Sorcerer-Prophet [445 pts]

  • Darkforged weapon
  • Heavy armour
  • Level 4 Wizard
  • 1 Blood of Hashut
  • General
  • Lammasu Sorcerous Exhalation
  • Talisman of Protection
  • Mantle of Stone
  • Armour of Meteoric Iron
  • Daemonology

Unmodifiable 5+ armor save, 5+ ward, 6 toughness, and some tricks up his sleeve.

Your Seneschal is still quite squishy, but I guess he’s not supposed to enter combat. Just hope that your enemy doesn’t have a sniper :grimacing:

Infernal guard unit is solid! Consider the Ashen standard? I feel like blunderbusses aren’t quite worth it. They have a lot of shots, but a wimpy strength and range compared to the fireglaives.

The dual Choo choos with fire in the trunk is ridonculous. It seems kiting them will be the best counter, and some armies will indeed be able to. I went a similar path for a 2k list, but less all in on the fire trains:

===
CD tournament 2k [2000 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Chaos Dwarfs

++ Characters [547 pts] ++

Sorcerer-Prophet [305 pts]

  • Hand weapon
  • Heavy armour
  • Be a Level 4 Wizard
  • On foot
  • Talisman of Protection
  • Armour of Meteoric Iron
  • Mantle of Stone
  • Daemonology

Infernal Seneschal [145 pts]

  • Darkforged weapon
  • Heavy armour
  • Pistol (not Naptha bombs)
  • Battle Standard Bearer
  • Charmed Shield
  • The Mask Of The Furnace

Black Orc Bigboss [97 pts]

  • Hand weapon
  • Full plate armour
  • Shield
  • On foot
  • Sword of Might

++ Core Units [529 pts] ++

15 Infernal Guard [308 pts]

  • Fireglaives
  • Heavy armour
  • Shield
  • Deathmask (champion) [Hellshard]
  • Standard bearer [Ashen Banner]
  • Musician

15 Black Orc Mob [221 pts]

  • Hand weapon
  • Full plate armour
  • 8 Great weapon
  • 7 Additional hand weapon
  • Boss
  • Standard bearer
  • Musician

++ Special Units [739 pts] ++

4 Bull Centaur Renders [294 pts]

  • Hand weapons
  • Light armour
  • Shield
  • Ba’hal [Obsidian Vambraces]
  • Standard bearer [War Banner]
  • Musician

Iron Daemon [310 pts]

  • Steam Cannonade
  • Hand weapons
  • Hellbound

Magma Cannon [135 pts]

  • Fire thrower
  • Hand weapons
  • Heavy Armour
  • Steam Carriage

++ Rare Units [185 pts] ++

1 Dreadquake Mortar [185 pts]

  • Dreadquake Mortar
  • Hand weapons
  • Heavy armour
  • Ogre Loader
3 Likes
11

As for the comparison to regular dwarfs, I’d say the difference is mostly in utility. We uniquely have: cheap throwaway infantry, fast cav, monstrous cav, monsters, magic users, and the iron daemon which doesn’t have an equivalent among the traitors, all of this makes our list building potential quite a bit versatile.

In addition, our infantry has s4 (although many people don’t agree with that decision :sweat_smile:).

Also also, we have the black orcs, which are not only good fighters, but they actually have decent initiative, how about that :astonished:

Also also also, our dreadquake and deathshrieker are some of the only warmachines to have d6 multiple wounds, which is potentially a big deal. Also pie plates, those two throw pie plates for days :pie:

Lastly (I think, as I’m rambling on) our sorcerer lord has 10ld, which is just amazing. In my game I really bought the idea of a shadowy overlord type character, mostly only spoken of in hushed tones among the regular chaos dwarfs. This character was manifest on the battlefield in all his dark power. My brother called him Jafar because of his hat, and I was like… Yeah, kind of. Then he got beheaded by a prancing bare chested elfling :see_no_evil: Epic in its own right, I suppose.

2 Likes
12

Thanks for the advice and insight everyone. Written many lists in the last few days and realised my list ideas are impossible gimmicks at 2k, if the game evolves to 2500 I will have my fun, but for now I have written this. Should be fairly obvious, I want to dominate the magic interactions and make use of panic shooting to even the numbers out, while not completely losing the melee.

===
Reach out and Touch you [2000 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Chaos Dwarfs

++ Characters [907 pts] ++

Sorcerer-Prophet [445 pts]

  • Darkforged weapon
  • Heavy armour
  • Level 4 Wizard
  • General
  • Lammasu [Sorcerous Exhalation]
  • Armour of Silvered Steel
  • Mantle of Stone
  • Lore Familiar
  • Daemonology

Daemonsmith Sorcerer [125 pts]

  • Darkforged weapon
  • Heavy armour
  • Level 2 Wizard
  • On foot
  • Dark Magic

Infernal Seneschal [212 pts]

  • Darkforged weapon
  • Heavy armour
  • Pistol (not Naptha bombs)
  • Shield
  • Battle Standard Bearer [The Lammasu’s Beard]
  • Charmed Shield
  • The Mask Of The Furnace

Daemonsmith Sorcerer [125 pts]

  • Darkforged weapon
  • Heavy armour
  • Level 2 Wizard
  • On foot
  • Elementalism

++ Core Units [508 pts] ++

15 Black Orc Mob [220 pts]

  • Hand weapon
  • Full plate armour
  • 8 Shields
  • 7 Great weapon
  • Boss
  • Standard bearer
  • Musician

15 Infernal Guard [288 pts]

  • Fireglaives
  • Heavy armour
  • Shield
  • Deathmask (champion)
  • Standard bearer [Ashen Banner]
  • Musician

++ Special Units [370 pts] ++

Deathshrieker Rocket Launcher [120 pts]

  • Demolition Rockets
  • Infernal Incendiaries
  • Hand weapons
  • Heavy armour

Deathshrieker Rocket Launcher [120 pts]

  • Demolition Rockets
  • Infernal Incendiaries
  • Hand weapons
  • Heavy armour

3 K’daai Fireborn [130 pts]

  • Hand weapons
  • Manburner (champion)

++ Rare Units [215 pts] ++

Hellcannon [215 pts]

  • Doomfire
  • Hand weapons

If its looking a bit too light on melee strength then I would probably lose a deathshrieker and find 10pts for more k’daai

13

Getting solider right there :astonished:

I’m wondering if the (cheaper) Mantle of Stone would be more worthwhile on the Seneschal - he’s not liable to hit first against anyone anyway.

The Darkforged weapons are in truth very much melee centered, so I’d forego them on the Daemonsmiths.

You need a black orc big- or warboss to include the black orc mob. Speaking of which: shields? They already have full plate and toughness 4, so I’d probably go for add. hand weapon in the front line and great weapons on the sides (cause of course they’ll be in a line :see_no_evil:) to maximize gains :muscle:

Hellcannon instead of the dreadquake? In 8th the hellcannon was superior in every way except the CC element, but as an artillery piece, the dreadquake seems a solid AF (and slightly cheaper) choice now, in comparison. The d6 multiple wounds spring to mind.

Other than that, I think it’s solid. No ward save on the lamassu prophet may be a bit risky if/when facing heavy AP or things that negate armor altogether. Silvered steel is a solid choice, no doubt, but it will get crimped by quite a few things in the game. Especially monster killing things :grimacing:

1 Like