[TOW] 2000 points new general

Chaos Dwarf Discussion Army List and Gaming Discussion
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Im currently assembling my Chaos Dwarf forces and trying to build a list which doesnt lose all the time. So I’m seeking your input to maybe optimize it further.

Characters (513 pts)

320 pts - Sorcerer Prophet - lvl4 Daemonology, Lammasu, General

115 pts - Daemonsmith Sorcerer - lvl 2 Daemonology

78 pts - Black Orc Bigboss - Additional hand weapon

Core (579 pts)

160 pts - 10x Infernal Guard - Fireglaives, Shields, Detachment

160 pts - 10x Infernal Guard - Fireglaives, Shields, Detachment

259 pts - 19x Back Orc Mob - Boss, Standard bearer, 19x Additional hand weapons

Elite (908 pts)

432 pts - 19x Infernal Ironsworn - Overseer (champion), Standard bearer, Great Weapons, Shields

275 pts - Iron Daemon - Steam Cannonade

135 pts - Magma Cannon - Steam Carriage

66 pts - 10x Sneaky Gits - Murder Boss (champion)

2000 Points

The Daemonsmith Sorcerer goes into the Infernal Ironsworn unit. It’s a unit my opponent probably doesn’t want to charge so it keeps him safe and he could even roll a buff spell like Steed of Shadows to give the unit Fly (12), Daemonic Vessel which buffs the unit he joined with +1S, +1A and +1AP or Daemonic Vigour with +1M +1T and +1I or he could roll Daemonic Familiars which he could cast in combat.

The Black Orc Bigboss joins the unit of Black Orcs.

The 2 Infernal Guard regiments are selected as detachments for the Infernal Ironsworn block and go on the right and left side of the block either in a 10x1 line or 5x2 close order formation with a slight angle to form a sort of V with the Ironsworn. They have shields and fireglaives. The idea is that they stand and shoot if they get charged and then swap to shields for the impact hits to hopefully hold so that the ironsworn can then flank the charging units with their great weapons. If the Ironsworn instead get charged they use their shields and I get to stand and shoot with both infernal guard units as they are detachments and then get a free countercharge into the flanks of the charging unit (again because of detachment). Shields on all 3 units also help against enemy shooting and artillery.

The Iron Daemon tows the magma cannon either on the left or the right side of the big formation and is supposed to force my opponent into advancing into my formation. The Iron Daemons shooting is pretty good and the magma cannons flame template should be quite good into bretonnian lance formations which will be one of my main enemies.

The Black Orc Block protects the other flank of my war machines and the sneaky gits go into ambush deployment and are supposed to hunt enemy war machines.

I will mostly play against Bretonnia, dark elves, empire and chaos. Is my plan and list reasonable or are there glaring weaknesses I am missing? Any ideas for improvement or critique of the list? I promised my general a bigger hat if he manages to beat the bretonnians so he is highly motivated :smiley:

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Cheers mate and well met!

Just in general I’d say that’s a good and balanced list. You have a solid game plan and selected your army accordingly.

I do have a few comments/questions

  • For a unit of 19 Ironsworn you unfortunately can only have Detachments of 9 models (it’s half of the models, rounding down)
  • 10 models wide for the Fireglaives is great in theory, but a potential problem is that they are 25cm wide. I had the same when I had 10 Irondrakes, and they were even still on their old 20mm bases, but that is such a massive wheel at movement 3, the unit is really cumbersome this way. Something to keep in mind.
  • I couldn’t help but notive that you have no magic items and barely any additional equipment. Is that something your game group just does? I mean I do like it, but only if your opponents do the same. Otherwise you’ll probably get outmatched pretty fast.

Also take a look at the Big Chaos Dwarf Tactics Compendium, maybe there’s something in there to help you.

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Thanks for the reply. To your comment:

I did not know that the detachment count is rounded down. Thats kind of a problem :smiley: I guess I will have to drop 2 black orcs then to make room for a 20th Ironsworn. Thanks for the notice.

The fireglaives will more likely go into a 5x2 formation. It kind of depends on the enemy list though. If it is more shooting oriented then 10x1 might still have merrit because maneuvering should become less important in that case.

Regarding magic items I’m rather unsure what to take and what to drop for them. My list already has a rather small unit count and equipping the heroes with items would force me to either drop my black orcs down to 10 or to cut a whole squad of infernal guard.

The sorcerer prophet isnt really supposed to go into combat. The Lammasu is mostly for mobility and for survivability if I dont manage to keep him out of combat. And as far as I can tell there arent any must have caster items so it felt alright to not give him any.

The logic for the Daemonsmith sorcerer is kinda the same. He might get into combat and might profit from a mantle of stone but it didn’t feel necessary in my head.

The bigboss would most certainly profit from some items but as he is the small version and can only get 50 points worth of items I can’t really buff him up to be very scary and if he has +1S or not didn’t feel all that important when I contrast that with having to drop units for the items.

The only magic item I initially had in the list was the lammasu’s beard banner on the ironsworn. But 65 points felt really expensive and I thought having a sneaky gits squad instead to threaten enemy war machines would be worth more than the banner.

I watched a tournament report from a guy playing bretonnia and he won the tournament with zero losses while having zero magic items. So I thought that I would be fine putting those points into more/bigger units. But I’m definitly open for suggestions if you have an idea for items that would improve the list and an idea what to cut for those items. I could for example cut one unit of infernal guard (frees 160 points), upgrade the bigboss to a warboss (-60 pts) and equip him with 100 pts worth of combat items. I’m just not sure if it would be worth it to lose a whole unit over.

edit: I just realized that I cant drop the infernal guard because that puts me under the 500 points core limit… So i would have to drop the sneaky gits, a war machine or throw away the whole detachment plan and shrink my ironsworn to 10 models

edit2: I could drop the black orc mob down to 14 models, remove the murder boss of the sneaky gits and put a giant blade and obsidian vambraces (is he allowed to take those or are those only for chaos dwarf characters?) on the bigboss. That would make him a little scarier with +2S and multiple wounds 2, armour bane 2 und magical attacks… Good idea? or bad?

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You can’t take away too much from the core units as you need at least 500 points. If you already get rid of 2 Black Orcs for that 20th Ironsworn, it’s even less. But also be aware that Detachments can be 5+ models, so you could also just go for 2x9 Fireglaives, if you want to keep the Black Orcs at 19 models.

While I’m a big fan of the Lammasu as a cheap mount which gives some great bonusses (the wounds and magic resistance), you could think about putting the Sorcerer Prophet on the FlyingCarpet. Has the added bonus that he’ll be a Skirmisher then and have a 360° vision arc to cast spells in all directions, not just in his front arc. That would free up 55pts.

Should you free up points somehow, there are a few items which are quite interesting

  • Lammasu’s Beard banner on the Ironsworn
  • Trollhide Trousers on the Black Orc Bigboss
  • Waaagh! Banner on the Black Orc Mob
  • Mantle of Stone on the Sorcerer-Prophet and/or Daemonsmith
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Those are some good suggestions. I will need a little time to think about that :smiley: Thanks for the input, much appreciated!

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Ah, forgot to mention this: You can only either do supporting stand & shoot or make the supporting flank charge.