[TOW] Let's get competitive

Hail Kinsfolk,

I want to see our enemies quake with fear or rage quit when they see our tall hats and/or masks on the table. We can work together to make this a reality.

The game is young and the legacy and boring main stream armies are on par so much so that many TOs are allowing or even encouraging legacy armies, lets make them regret that.

From research and the few games I’ve had, I’ve noticed a few trends and tactics along with units that have done well and with your help and experiences we can make some strong 1k and 2k lists.

++findings++

Characters

  • Sorcerer Prophet (level 4, flying) 320pts
    Flying mounted heros and level 4 casters are bread and butter in almost every army now so shall we imho.
    One combo I’ve noticed is flying mounts have terror and the lore of Deamonology (which is the strongest lore imho) has Gathering darkness which gives -2 initiative but more importantly -2 ld and cant be inspired. Meaning a greater chance the enemy run in fear or fail to charge him has he zooms up the board. Also with the larger base means we can dispell a bigger area as we zoom around their lines. Lamasu also had magic resist to protect from enemy casters abd is the cheapest options.
    Must take.

  • Khan on wolf + Hobgoblin wolf riders 127pts
    Cheap and powerful tactically. Good for hunting artillery or hitting backlines or rears. Keep them cheap no banners but bows and reserve move are good for harassing enemies and disruption.
    Must take imho.

  • Deamonsmith (level 2, Dark magic) 115pts.
    Deamonology is best but harder to cast and the signature is shorter range than that of dark magic is probably better. Also if you roll and get vortex you can use it to move block potential chargers.
    Good to have.

Core

  • Infernal guard (Full command, Fyreglavie)
    The blunderbus looks better on paper but With our little legs the extra range has proven to be more effective than the number of shots in my games, the fact that its a point cheaper is nice, CAN equip a shield for 4+ save from shooting. I use tye ashen banner on larger units seems to work. Hellshard on the champion is a sneaky suicide bomber for challenges. A detachment of blunderbus for charge reaction and to help fill out the core.
    Have to take.

  • Hobgoblins (shortbows) 30pts
    Good fillers for the core, super cheap and from experience heavy armour doesnt help much at all (basically imperial guard flak armour) so these are better fillers imho. The shield doesn’t help much with such a small save but bows will do some damage and make good speed bumps and protect the flanks.
    I haven’t tried black orcs so cannot comment on them but look good.

Warmachines

  • Iron deamon 275pts
    Strong and worked very well for me (especially near a deamonsmith or Prophet), big target saturation with the flying prophet helps.
    Good to take.

  • Magma cannon (steam carriage) 135pts
    I tried the rockets which look better on paper but always seem to miss or not do much. Magma cannon may not be as scary but it hits alot more.
    Steam carrage can be helpful against castles.
    Good to take

I haven’t tried the dreadquake mortar and hellcannon so cant comment.

Spare points in stacking Mantle of stone.

But these are my findings and I have not competed in any high end tournaments so any and all grumblings about my lists and findings is welcome. Please tell me your findings and lists below.

5 Likes

Chaos Dwarfs - CD 1000 Competitive - [998pts]

Main Force [998pts]

Characters [395pts]

Hobgoblin Khan [60pts]:
• 1x Hobgoblin Khan: Hand Weapon, Giant Wolf, Light Armour, Shortbow

Sorcerer-Prophet [335pts]:
• 1x Sorcerer-Prophet: Hand Weapon, Heavy Armour, General, Lammasu, Hand Weapon, Sorcerous Exhalation, Wizard Level 4, Daemonology

Core [258pts]

Hobgoblin Cutthroats [30pts]:
• 10x Cutthroat: Hand Weapon, Shortbow

Hobgoblin Cutthroats [30pts]:
• 10x Cutthroat: Hand Weapon, Shortbow

Infernal Guard [198pts]:
• 10x Infernal Guard: Hand Weapon, Heavy Armour

• 1x Deathmask: Hellshard

• 1x Musician

• 1x Standard Bearer
, Fireglaive, Shield

Special [275pts]

Iron Daemon [275pts]:
• 1x Iron Daemon: Steam Cannonade
3x Chaos Dwarf Crew, Hand Weapon

Rare [70pts]

Hobgoblin Wolf Riders [70pts]:
• 5x Hobgoblin Wolf Rider: Hand Weapon, Light Armour, Shield
Giant Wolf, Hand Weapon, Shortbow, Reserve Move

3 Likes

Chaos Dwarfs - CD 2000 Competitive - [2000pts]

Main Force [2000pts]

Characters [574pts]

Daemonsmith Sorcerer [115pts]:
• 1x Daemonsmith Sorcerer: Hand Weapon, Heavy Armour, Wizard Level 2, Dark Magic

Hobgoblin Khan [64pts]:
• 1x Hobgoblin Khan: Hand Weapon, Giant Wolf, Great Weapon, Light Armour, Shortbow

Sorcerer-Prophet [395pts]:
• 1x Sorcerer-Prophet: Hand Weapon, Heavy Armour, General, Lammasu, Hand Weapon, Mace Tail, Sorcerous Exhalation, Wizard Level 4, Daemonology, Armour of Bazherak the Cruel

Core [546pts]

Infernal Guard [368pts]:
• 20x Infernal Guard: Hand Weapon, Heavy Armour

• 1x Deathmask: Hellshard

• 1x Musician

• 1x Standard Bearer: Ashen Banner
, Fireglaive
Infernal Guard [178pts]:
• 10x Infernal Guard: Hand Weapon, Heavy Armour

• 1x Deathmask

• 1x Musician

• 1x Standard Bearer
, Hailshot Blunderbusses

Special [820pts]

Iron Daemon [275pts]:
• 1x Iron Daemon: Steam Cannonade
3x Chaos Dwarf Crew, Hand Weapon
Iron Daemon [275pts]:
• 1x Iron Daemon: Steam Cannonade
3x Chaos Dwarf Crew, Hand Weapon
Magma Cannon [135pts]:
• 1x Magma Cannon: Fire Thrower, Hand Weapon, Heavy Armour, Steam Carriage

Magma Cannon [135pts]:
• 1x Magma Cannon: Fire Thrower, Hand Weapon, Heavy Armour, Steam Carriage

Rare [60pts]

Hobgoblin Wolf Riders [60pts]:
• 5x Hobgoblin Wolf Rider: Hand Weapon, Light Armour, Shield
Giant Wolf, Hand Weapon

2 Likes

The meta emerges :laughing:

You have the cannonade on all iron daemons - what do you think of the skullcracker upgrade? Hellbound?

The lamassu also causes terror, how does it stack up next to a Taurus as a terror bomb?

Great Taurus instead of bale Taurus, what’s your reasoning for choosing baby moo moo?

Infernal Guard don’t have ensorceled weapons. Thoughts on Ironsworn?

Steam carriages on those two magma cannons is a god damn awesome idea, choo choo mfer :steam_locomotive::fire: - has it proven to be worthwhile?

Oh, and what about hobo bolt throwers? Would 3 of them be a good choice?

I’m going with this setup for my first go at 1200 points:

===
CD 1200 v. 2 [1198 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Chaos Dwarfs

++ Characters [560 pts] ++

Sorcerer-Prophet [320 pts]

  • Hand weapon
  • Heavy armour
  • Be a Level 4 Wizard
  • On foot
  • Talisman of Protection
  • Flying Carpet
  • Breath of Hashut
  • Elementalism

Infernal Seneschal [140 pts]

  • Darkforged weapon
  • Heavy armour
  • Standard Bearer
  • The Mask Of The Furnace
  • Charmed Shield

Daemonsmith Sorcerer [100 pts]

  • Hand weapon
  • Heavy armour
  • Naptha bombs
  • On foot
  • Dark Magic

++ Core Units [333 pts] ++

15 Infernal Guard [273 pts]

  • Fireglaives
  • Heavy armour
  • Deathmask
  • Standard bearer
  • Ashen Banner
  • Musician

10 Hobgoblin Cutthroats [30 pts]

  • Hand weapons and shortbow

10 Hobgoblin Cutthroats [30 pts]

  • Hand weapons and shortbow

++ Special Units [120 pts] ++

1 Deathshrieker Rocket Launcher [120 pts]

  • Demolition Rockets
  • Infernal Incendiaries
  • Hand weapons
  • Heavy armour

++ Rare Units [185 pts] ++

1 Dreadquake Mortar [185 pts]

  • Dreadquake Mortar
  • Hand weapons
  • Heavy armour
  • Ogre Loader

I’m going gunline, sort of, but am aware that it might not go my way due to rng. The Daemonsmith is there to mitigate failure on the artillery, and pop off some doombolts at range.

Prophet is supposed to whoosh around on his carpet and do breath of Hashut into a particularly juicy, wide unit.

I don’t have any wolf riders, only a Khan on wolf, but I can tell I’ll need them. I was going to get some anyway. Also big flying monsters, but don’t have them yet.

I’m also on team “trying to make bulltaurs work”

2 Likes

Hey kinman

Thanks for the reply,

Ok i must eat some humble pie and make some changes.

Hellbound yes the reroll and ward save on all those wounds is good fun, i haven’t tried the skullcracker so cant comment on that.

I missed the lamasu had terror and Ill definitely go for that maybe with the mantle of stone.
Baby moo was to save points and i dont have a bale taurus mini so havent tried that either as well as points cost.

Also missed that infernal gs dont have ensensorcell so im gunna need to apologize to some players.

The steam carrages have been surprisingly helpful on people sitting back and castling, i move them up on the flank with the flying Sorcerer General and get some nice side angles for flamer templates.

Havent tried bolt throwers ether, but could work, let us know :slight_smile:

Nice list, have you tried it? How well did it do?

Unfortunately the Infernal Engineer reroll doesn’t apply to Iron Daemons, as they are chariots not war machines.

On that note, I would add that the Deathshrieker + nearby Engineer is a terrifying combo. Its attacks didn’t look great on paper but that 5” panic template wreaks havoc against t3 mid leadership enemies. Possibly not so much against dwarfs/chaos and tougher eggs.

3 Likes

Thanks for the reply, i did try the deathsheaker as they have the range and much cheaper than the magma cannons and maybe ive been unlucky with them but they only killed a few chaff models out of all my games. I hope they work better for you bro :slight_smile:

3 Likes

Someone rightly pointed out the the Multiple Wounds (D6) for the Deathsrieker’s Demolition Rocket is super rare in TOW (ironically we also have it on the Dreadquake :wink:). And now demo rocket even has a template!

3 Likes

It looks good but im yet to hit anything with it 0r kill more than a few handful of minis but will give then another chance one day lol

I have been eyeballing the Skullcracker, not only is the 2d6+2 Impact Hits quite the glow up but im also quite tempted to put Hellbound on him while I am at it, boosting it up to causing Terror is great, when you win combat the extra -1 to your opponents Leadership can make or break them.

I just wish it was cheaper on the Skullcracker over the Iron Demon, as its only really recieving half the benefit.

I’m looking for a second Flame Cannon so i can run an Iron Demon with the Flamer, as of right now my plan is tow it with the Skullcracker.

1 Like

Playing the idea of throwing Blunderbusses around and rubberbanding them back if possible. Teleport, shoot everything too bits, stand and shoot on anyone, maybe survive?, port back. Glaives are traditional gunline guarding the Hellcannon. Sneaky Gitz clog up the board and keep ambushers away for a minute.

This list relies on 3 things to be successful.1 Overwhelming the enemy in Panic. Between the shooting, Ruby Ring and hopefully rolling Phantasmagoria. 2 Reliably winning every magic “roll off” and keeping the opposing players magic turned off. Lamassu Sorc should get that done with support from the foot Sorc behind him. 3, Keeping the Hellcannon firing as long as possible. At some point it’s getting shot off or engaged. If it’s engaged, fine. If it’s shot off, damn. If it’s still firing you’re probably winning the game.

That’s going to be my training list until I become familiar with the rules. I should say this list probably auto loses to the undead factions but whatever. Going to 1500 or 2k I just fatten up what you see here and add more machines.

===
Blunderband [999 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Chaos Dwarfs

++ Characters [390 pts] ++

Daemonsmith Sorcerer [275 pts]

  • Hand weapon
  • Heavy armour
  • Level 2 Wizard
  • 1 Blood of Hashut
  • General
  • Lammasu Sorcerous Exhalation
  • Ruby Ring of Ruin
  • Dark Magic

Daemonsmith Sorcerer [115 pts]

  • Hand weapon
  • Heavy armour
  • Level 2 Wizard
  • On foot
  • Daemonology

++ Core Units [334 pts] ++

10 Infernal Guard [172 pts]

  • Hailshot blunderbluss
  • Heavy armour
  • Standard bearer
  • Musician

10 Infernal Guard [162 pts]

  • Fireglaives
  • Heavy armour
  • Standard bearer
  • Musician

++ Special Units [60 pts] ++

10 Sneaky Gits [60 pts]

  • Two hand weapons
  • throwing weapons

++ Rare Units [215 pts] ++

Hellcannon [215 pts]

  • Doomfire
  • Hand weapons

Created with “Old World Builder”

[https://old-world-builder.com]

2 Likes

There is a popular and free stl online thats really good if you can get someone to 3d print it

Thank you for the list and detailed explanation, legend bro.
Out of curiosity, How come you’re taking a hellcannon over the other warmachines?

1 Like

Panic tests regardless of % of casualties. If the Sorcs are doing their job right I should be able to keep the board tied up with enough Vortexes I can mitigate incoming charging units. This should cluster up opposing units. Keep the Panic raining down on them nonstop. There’s another argument to go 1500 and take the front line Sorc to prophet level on a Bale Taurus. Just push him up front on whatever comes in and start dropping -2 LD bombs and negating enemy general leadership. That can get real messy real fast.

I like the Hellcannon over the Dreadquake because if I can successfully pin you behind 2-3 Vortexes I don’t need to decrease your movement. I just need to keep you pinned, out of room too shift and open to my LoS. I like the Dreadquake. It’s bigger damage, it’s cheaper, it can have Hellbound??? and I know it has Steam Carriage. It’s just not what I need from a machine for this specific list. The damage is neglible for me. I’m not about high output wounds. I’m about 1 wound and a Panic test. edit - This list is about pushing Panic as much as possible. I’m not trying to beat anything in combat. I’m not trying to out gun your gunline. I’m trying to win magic contests (and I gear my Sorcs for this more and more as it’s grows), and keeping the board state as convuluted as possible. That’s my road too victory. I might not actually “kill” more than a handful of points but if they units just start running on their own T1… I mean lol…

Killing the enemy is unimportant and doesn’tmatter if they just go away instead. My 2k version of this is 3 casters and 2 Hellcannons.

Lastly and most importantly why I chose to do it this way… I own 2 Hellcannos and I own 0 Dreadquake Mortors. I suppose I could use my Earthshakers but I want to live in a world where my Earthshakers are just that and only that; Earthshakers.

2 Likes

Thanks again :slight_smile:
Yeah i love the moral war.
I was just saying the other day when i was justifying using a lamasu and gathering darkness over getting a combat bull is that you dont need to win combat to win the fight.
So why hellcannon over dreadshreaker rockets? Can almost get 2 for the same points and both cause panic from heavy casualties from a single kill, also bigger blast trempate or higher damage options. Although rule of cool and rules of acquisition are fair arguments lol.

1 Like

It comes down to lack of the models I’m afraid to even consider. I’ll take the S10 -5 to ensure the Panic goes off over the Deathshriekers S6 -3. I’d like to run 2 of each honestly. That’s how the rent gets paid!

@2k I’m shoehorning an Iron Daemon dragging a Magma Cannon behind it. The list fills out fast just with what I can bring to the table, so I’m working with the tools Hashut has given me. Beyond 2k… like 2400 I jsut keeping adding bodies. More troops, more fireglaives???

I have an edgy idea to block up as many MSU Sneaky Gitz as possible around an Ironsworn carrying the Overseers Banner. Then ninja teleport in an Infernal Seneschal carrying the Lammasu’s beard. -1 to it skirmishers, -2 after Storm of Ash Lassus Beard gives them a 5+ ward against shooting and they threw away their Levies so Overseers +ironswron + BSB equals a HUGE footprint of hard to shift Hobgrots that are dirt cheap. You could probably do the same with Cutthroats. Again, I’m only looking at what I own and can put on a table. So that a direction I was thinking too.

3 Likes

Awesome let me know how it goes.
With the rockets id be more likely to use the big template over the small one for better hit chance but again i didnt have much luck with that

I mean ok, but what if you’re facing Undead or Daemons?

1 Like

I dont know if we have too much to Fear from Demons, with our Hand Weapons negating their Wards.

But yeah, Undead are a serious concern when looking to force panic tests, its where the templates will make dividends though, Undead have a tendancy to be fielded in large blocks.

I am looking to give this a try to see what i do and dont like heading into this brave new age of Warhammer.

===
Choo-choo! [2500 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Chaos Dwarfs

++ Characters [552 pts] ++

Infernal Seneschal [127 pts]

  • Darkforged weapon
  • Heavy armour
  • Shield
  • Battle Standard Bearer [Ashen Banner]

Sorcerer-Prophet [280 pts]

  • Darkforged weapon
  • Heavy armour
  • Be a Level 4 Wizard
  • On foot
  • Wand of Jet
  • Dark Magic

Daemonsmith Sorcerer [145 pts]

  • Hand weapon
  • Heavy armour
  • Be a Level 2 Wizard
  • On foot
  • Lore Familiar
  • Daemonology

++ Core Units [660 pts] ++

14 Infernal Guard [186 pts]

  • Hand weapons
  • Heavy armour
  • Shield
  • Deathmask
  • Standard bearer
  • Musician

13 Infernal Guard [174 pts]

  • Hand weapons
  • Heavy armour
  • Shield
  • Deathmask
  • Standard bearer
  • Musician

10 Infernal Guard [150 pts]

  • Fireglaives
  • Heavy armour

10 Infernal Guard [150 pts]

  • Fireglaives
  • Heavy armour

++ Special Units [1103 pts] ++

1 Iron Daemon [275 pts]

  • Steam Cannonade
  • Hand weapons

1 Iron Daemon [320 pts]

  • Skullcracker
  • Hand weapons
  • Hellbound

1 Deathshrieker Rocket Launcher [120 pts]

  • Demolition Rockets
  • Infernal Incendiaries
  • Hand weapons
  • Heavy armour

1 Magma Cannon [135 pts]

  • Fire thrower
  • Hand weapons
  • Heavy Armour
  • Steam Carriage

3 K’daai Fireborn [130 pts]

  • Hand weapons
  • Manburner (champion)

3 K’daai Fireborn [123 pts]

  • Hand weapons

++ Rare Units [185 pts] ++

1 Dreadquake Mortar [185 pts]

  • Dreadquake Mortar
  • Hand weapons
  • Heavy armour
  • Ogre Loader

A boring gunline for tomorrow until i get my Taurus rebased for the old world and i get my hands on some Hobgrotz, i cant be having 25% of my army being led around by its nose (ring).

The Skullcracker tows the Magma Cannon if i want to get cute and push a flank, the Dwarves eat charges, Iron Demons and K’daii ar my flankers… nothing fancy, just shells and hellfire.

1 Like

Oh, super easy. I probably auto lose. I want to reiterate what I’ve said a few times. I’m bringing the most competitive list I can bring. It’s what I have and can field. It auto losses to ITP factions and it’s probably going to get wrecked by Ambusher armies too.

Its. What. I. Own.

3 Likes