[Archive] 2,5k List for play?

sam585:

The list is designed around 2 close combat blocks which are a group of infernals with the bsb and lord, and a block of bullcentaurs with greatweapons.

The list focuses mainly on controlling the movement phase with 6 khans, 4 with spears and 2 with magical weapons for etherals. Additionally if I roll ashstorm that is just more power to me.

The centaur block with 2 taur’ruks ideally will get into close combat turn 2, and with 8 str7 attacks, backed up with 9 str6 attacks, they should really power through anything since on average they will only be taking 3 wounds and possibly only 5 from combat lords/heroes and should maintain steadfast.

The hobgoblins with bows are additionally for chaff clearance, and generally being a nuisance and an extreme threat to any gunline army.

So here is the list:

395- Sorcerer Prophet Lvl 4 Hashut

-Blackhammer

-Enchanted shield

-Talisman of Endurance

-Dispel Scroll

200- Castellen BSB

-Great Weapon

-Mask of the Furnace

235- Taur’ruk

-Greatweapon

-Blackshard Armor

-Tricksters Helm

235- Taur’ruk

-Greatweapon

-Blackshard Armor

-Flame Helm

-Dawnstone

-Other Ticksters Shard

58- Khan

-Wolf

-Spear

-L.Armor

58- Khan

-Wolf

-Spear

-L.Armor

58- Khan

-Wolf

-Spear

-L.Armor

58- Khan

-Wolf

-Spear

-L.Armor

59- Khan

-Wolf

-Magic sword

-L. Armor

59- Khan

-Wolf

-Magic sword

-L.Armor



497- 30 Infernal Guard

-FCMD

-Greatweapons

-Swiftness Banner

104- 20 hobgoblins

-bows

-musician

104- 20 hobgoblins

-bows

-musician

380- 7 Bull Centaurs

-FCMD

-Greatweapons

-Gleaming Pennent

Total: 2500

Thoughts?

Bloodbeard:

Looking forward to hearing how this list performs Sam.

Seems real brutal for Close Combat. But putting your Prophet into combat with only a 5++? And no Earthning Rod.

That’s the worst thing about our lord choice - it’s hard to decide on his battlefield role. You should find room for the Iron Curse Icon on either bsb or prophet. That large block of infantry will get hit with a lot of warmachine fire. And you only need a single 6 to earn your points back. It might be the one 6 to save a complete rank until you hit combat.

TheHoodedMan:

If a opponent wants to fight, this is a great list. If not you`ll face serious problems. Many people will try to avoid your IG blocks. With my skaven I would try to decimate and isolate the BC block and kill all khans and then see what happens.

Khans are too many. I assume you expect them to be killed. That are far over 300 points lost in most games.

sam585:

I expect my khans to die, but I do not believe you appreciate how difficult 6 khans be to kill turn 1, because turn 2 I am sending them into warmacmines.

Additionally, even if the khans all die, I will make those points back, and still preserve the other 2200 points of my force.

TheHoodedMan:

Ok. Let us know how it worked out.

I admit you could keep the khans in your blocks if you do not need them otherwise.

Lepcon85:

Renders are solid hitters but their low leadership can be back breaking if u end up getting in to a bad combat which can tend to happen it they bog them down with something til they can advance an answer in to them. I suggest trying to find a place for the stubborn crown for that unit. Helps make them stick a bit longer and get their value out of them for longer. Just a thought bud

sam585:

I too was thinking of taking the stubborn crown, it really makes the unit that much harder to get rid of. However, I still want the option to for a character wall. So what are your thoughts on this loadout

Taur’ruk
-Greatweapon
-Blackshard
-Luckstone
-charmed shield
-Crown of Command

The idea with this one is that the charmed shield and luckstone could translate to an extra 1 or 2 wounds for the Taur’ruk. Though he will only have a 2+ armor save after that first round of protection, it should save him from a bunch of ogre clubs.

I then have 5 points to throw an ironcurse icon on the bsb for you bloodbeard :stuck_out_tongue:

TheHoodedMan:

That`s a good setup. Against low strength units you can easily play him in a character wall with AS 2+, T 5, 4 Wounds.

Against units with high S you can play him in the 2nd rank and still have 3 support attacks.

The 2 cheap protection items should help him through at least 1 more round of combat.

Vantraxx the Thrice Cursed:

I’m not sold on the list at all. I would at least throw your prophet on a magic carpet so he can hide behind the units, duck out to cast spells and not kill half the unit when he misfires. Tal of Pres, ench shield and carpet for sure. It adds flexability to your list.

I can see what your doing here, it is more reliable than the usual war machine spam but CD’s controlling the movement phase seems almost laughable. You can win the points denial game but all the chaff is going to die, giving away free points. I think you need lore of undeath for that so you can summon ethereals to bog everyone down and actually control them. The Khan spam is very nasty and i think in the hands of a cunning general like yourself you will dominate with them.

I would run cheap expendable troops backed with the Khans and warmachine spam. 1 Purple sun on the IG unit is over 500vp in the bag. Too juicy. Why would anyone ever try to tackle the unit in combat? Against WoC you will really struggle. Slaanesh magic to hold up the bulls. Death or Shadow to nail the IG block. Maybe that is the biggest weakness here, a strong magic phase from your opponent will spell doom for you, sure the Khans will slip through but when your chargeing Chaos warrior blocks, trolls or a hellcannon the Khans are going to get worked. With no real long range threat. the enemy can just avoid/flee with everything until he pulls your bulls into a weak position. Looks like a tough list but if you had 2 deathrockets it would change the dynamic of the battle because you will have a real long range threat the enemy is forced to deal with. At 100pts you could call the deathrockets chaff :wink:

sam585:

Thank you for taking the time to give me feed back you guys, and I am listening :stuck_out_tongue:

So here is the new rendition

400- prophet

lvl 4 of hashut

blackhammer

Enchanted shield

talisman of endurance

dispell scroll

ironcurse

200- bsb

greatweapon

mask of the furnace

235- taur’ruk

greatweapon

blackshard

flamehelm

dawnstone

OTS

230- taur’ruk

greatweapon

blackshard

charmed shield

luckstone

crown of command

59- khan

magic weapon

l.armor

wolf

58- khan

spear

l.armor

wolf

58- khan

spear

l.armor

wolf

58- khan

spear

l.armor

wolf

56- khan

spear

wolf

512- 31 infernal guard

greatweapons

fcmd

swiftness

114- 20 hobgoblins

bows

shields

musician

320- 6 centaurs

greatweapons

banner

musician

gleaming pennent

xx-rocket

xx-rocket

So I dropped a hobgoblin block, 1 khan , 1 centaur, dropped l. Armor on one khan, and removed the champion from the centaurs. Then dropped in 2 rockets for a ranged threat.

I will test the list tomorrow against 2 different opponents and will report on how it performs.

TheHoodedMan:

I`m really looking forward to read about your experiences, especially how the high number of khans did and if the BC block survived well.

sam585:

So i tested the army out today against a very very soft warrior list. So soft that it is not really a good indication of the armies effectiveness. However, some things of note.

1- 5 khans basically dictated the battle up until turn 4.

2- rockets We’re a good investment and compliment the list nicely

3- the centaur block is basically a deathstar

4- not having to rely on shooting, and actually having a strong movement phase made for a very fun game, and it was the most fun I have had with legion of azgorh.

sam585:

Had another battle today against Ogre Kingdoms. My opponent cornered castle, and got the first turn (it was the scenario where the board is cut in half diagonally, and you can steal first turn on a roll of a 6)

I lost this battle, but I feel it was more of my failure during deployment, not taking into consideration all the possible charges my opponent can make, and me making some pretty dumb mistakes namely making way into Close combat when I need not to.

However, even with those mistakes, the battle still came down to a pretty important couple of turns where it could have swung either way, still an exciting match, and still a lot of fun.

One thing I have taken from this is that, the Khans need to float around the centaurs, keeping dangerouns high atk/str opponents out of there flanks and rear, and also holding them off for my infernal guard to get stuck in. The centaur with stubborn needs to stick in the back rank for as long as possible, and with his defenses untouched.

The prophet with the blackhammer, it is likely a bad investment, but I am feeling that I want to keep the list on the more fun side of things, and having a prophet that can dish out the hurt in close combat is as fun as it gets.

Lastly, the centaur block died, but I am starting to better see just how powerful it is. It is a very simple point and click tactic the complicated part is keeping the centaurs where I want them to be, and keeping my opponent from getting into its flanks. With 5 khans it should not be too difficult. I just need to stop being bad with deployment, but that is more of an experience issue with this new force. I have a rematch on wednesday with the same ogre player, will report again how that goes.

sam585:

So rematch came and went. We actually played two games; however, the list had a change in that the stubborn Tau’ruk went out for an Irondemon. I played against my opponents much stronger list which switched out mournfang for 3 rhinox riders.

First game was a victory to me pretty much decided after my turn 2 after I hit his gutstar with two flames of azgorh in a row. The irondemon did put a lot of pressure on him and limited his available movement options (I went full speed ahead due to him corner castling).

Second game we played immediately after the first to see if it was a fluke victory. This one we did not get to finish due to time constraints, but same events generally occurred. Gutstar was contained in the corner with khans, and the irondemon. Flames of Azgorh claimed a large amount of the gutstar. Now it was a much closer game at the end, and likely would be determined by my next magic phase but we never got there.

Honestly, I feel an irondemon makes the list a little to good. Now I know this thread is titled competitive play, but I mean more a fun list that can compete with competitive lists. This Friday I will go back to the original rendition (double taur’ruk) and see how it fares.

TheHoodedMan:

I have a question: Why did your opponent play corner castle with ogres?

I never saw that. In my surroundings the iron guts move straight forward, try to block out the nasty things with sabre tooths or flame ward heroes and reach the war machines and main block.

List variation ist mainly in the magic section (butcher/fire mage) and in the relation shooting/mournfangs.

sam585:

The idea is that since he has two ironblasters, and poison man eaters, he has superior shooting against my two rockets and irondemon which he does with the accuracy of his cannons, and the fact they have 5 wounds each, and toughness 6. If I sit and wait I just loose the shooting war, and he whittles down my blocks. Additionally, with a 12" march he can just sit for a few turns and still make it across the board when I am beat down anyway.Honestly if he played like most ogre players (who do just rush foreward) I would likely have an easy time with him since I could work out a combo charge with the infernal guard and bulls. By him being in a corner, my khans really loose out on effectiveness since they have nothing to chaff until turn 3 or 4, where a few of them have always died to magic and shooting.

Side note, lots of khans make using the irondemon way more fun :slight_smile:

sam585:

I had two losses on Friday, one close and one not so much, I played stupid and reckless both games but I did it for mainly for a final learning experience on this style of army and I already knew that sitting back and weakening my opponent with magic and shooting works, I needed to know if my centaurs can stand up to truly terrifying combat blocks that are still at full strength. And I just had to attempt to kill a level 4 with 2 khans :slight_smile: (ended terribly)

Here is the deal about this particular list.

Bullcentaurs, even with two heroes, cant fight serious power units, and will get butchered mercilessly. What is a serious power unit?

I am looking at these:

Tomb Guard horded with tomb king, and necrotect with halberds and razor standard

Witch Elves with cauldron in horded

Savage Orc Big’uns horded

An Ogre Gutstar in horde formation, though this really does come down to buffs and hexes in use, who got the charge, etc and is likely the best opponent for our centaur block in the list of truly nasty units.

Though the centaurs cant beat those units, I honestly believe those to be some of the greatest combat blocks in the game.

Things centaurs can beat in a straight fight->

Generally anything else, Centaurs are in a nice position because of toughness 5 with a 3+ armor save, and when run is such a large unit with the double heroes they can really achieve a lot against more typical or good combat units.

Thus the opponent really determines how the centaurs will function in the army. If they have a serious combat block, then the centaurs have to play defensive and let magic, and hopefully a few rounds of rockets thin out those units to the point where the centaurs can kill them. If they don’t have that type of combat block, then the centaurs really have free reign, and can just go around eating enemy units. Though it is really not that simple and magic and other phases of the game do play in, but the centaurs will be in a significant advantage if the opponent lacks a potent combat unit.

Now Khans, 5 Khans really is overkill, and 4 is probably all that is ever going to be needed. And 4 Khans is still quite potent especially if you roll up with ashstorm. The nice thing about having 4 khans is that you essentially have 2 you can dedicate to hunting warmahcines and another 2 just for chaffing. Moreover, the hobgoblin rank and file are another chaff unit.

So hobgoblins Khans are really really cool and here is why:

1- They can vanguard and be a threat to enemy warmachines on turn 2.

2- You can setup combo charges on your opponents main combat units, and have the Khan challenge the enemies combat lord or hero so that your combat unit has an easier time.

3- They can redirect very well.

4- When used together they can destroy a lot of other chaff units.

5- 4 Khans, when not played foolishly, are very difficult for the opponent to just get rid of, I have never had more then 1 khan die a turn to ballistic shooting now against woodelves, yea those khans are dead but that is to be expected. Magic spells tend to usually don’t focus on the khans.

The Infernal Guard block, is actually kind of interesting.

When deployed 6 wide with the bsb and the general they throw out 17 strength 6 attacks a phase, unless they get decimated before they can swing (which usually only occurs when fighting a truly powerful combat unit). When gifted with hatred they have a very high damage output. In my games so far, this unit has made it into combat relatively unscathed due to the opponent focusing on everything else, mainly dealing with the chaff and maneuvering for the centaurs.  The bigest thing I feel you must watch out for this unit is killing blow. Now only a few armies have access to it, it creates a very big threat for our lords and heroes who can easily be dispatched, and preferably you would not be getting into combat with those units.

The rockets, ok they are pretty cool especially when you don’t rely on the reroll. They usually draw a lot of attention from the opponents artillery. Against those armies that have a significantly powerful combat unit, you must pump 2-3 rounds of rockets into them to make them manageable. With such a large pie template, those elf elite units which gives this army a headache are easily dispatched. Against the likes of tomb guard, it is a little more difficult but it is still quite doable since they are reallly slooow.

The Sorcerer Prophet  then plays a very important roll in this army. First and foremost ashstorm, not as needed as much in the early game but late game we are rally using ashstorm to swing combats to our favor with the -1 to hit. Thus early game (if you get it)  flames of azgorh must be cast turn 1. It is a risky job since you need to 5 dice flames of azgorh making the chances of getting irresistible force a very real prospect, but luckily flames is such a powerful spell that you need only get it off twice for that big scary unit to be broken. Additionally, he gives re-rolls to the rockets when facing a scary army.

The basic strategem for this army is to not get into any serious combat until turn 3 or 4. The rest of the time should be focused on weakening the opponents combat blocks, and moving the army into position.  Now please be advised, I learned that this army is really really unforgiving and you really cant make any mistakes, and you must be aware of pretty much all of your opponents possible moves, but with that said it is a very very fun army and has reignited my love for the LoA and I hope more members test out more combat and movement focused LoA lists.

To make a more competitive version of this army, it would really be to switch out a Taur’ruk and a centaur for an irondemon as mentioned earlier. Or if you feel confident enough a K’daii destroyer. Both of those options completely change how this army functions and makes it even harder for the opponent to make a focused response against you, however prepare for a serious comp hit if you do so! :sick

Additionally, if any of you good members have the time would you mind playing a similar list and reporting back on your experiences? I will give slaves if you do so! :smiley:

zhatan87:

I can’t tell you how it does, as I didn’t find time to play it, but here was my ETC 2015 CD list if I find time to play it in a tourney.
2400 pts list, with many restrictions, but pretty similar of yours. Maybe you can find ideas in it.
I’m pretty confident that it’s a very strong list, I’ve done many stats, and yes, the deathstar of BC renders can’t deal with every thing, that’s why it needs some spells or warmachines to kill some models of the opponent’s deathstar. It’s a very versatile list, you can play it defensively or aggressively.
I would have liked to play it with a third taur’uk played with sword of strike, black shard armour, shield, luckstone, potion of strengh

Daemonsmith level 2, metal, charmed shield, dispel scroll, general
Daemonsmith level 2, metal, scroll of shielding
Bull centaur Taur’uk, warrior bane, dragonbane gem, enchanted shield, crown of command
Bull centaur Taur’uk, great weapon, blackshard armour, dragon helm, dawnstone, other trickstershard (OTS)
12 infernal guards (just in case of, not to be targeted in some match up for your daemonsmiths), standard, standard of discipline
38 hobgoblins, bows, shields, FC
37 hobgoblins, bows, shields, FC
8 Bull centaurs renders, great weapons, FC, gleaming pennant
1 deathshrieker rocket launcher
1 deathshrieker rocket launcher
1 Hellcannon
1 Hellcannon

Hoping it can help

sam585:

That is a very interesting list that focuses a little to much on shooting for my new play style; however, It seems very nasty when compared to the generic LoA lists in that you dropped the standard infernal guard block for hobgoblins and a centaur d.star yet kept all of our reliable shooting intact.

sam585:

After play testing this army for a while (I think longer than any LoA army I have ever played :slight_smile: ) I am settled on this:

395- prophet

lvl 4 of hashut

blackshard armor

blackhammer

Enchanted shield

talisman of endurance

dispel  scroll

200- bsb

blackshard armor

greatweapon

mask of the furnace

235- taur’ruk

greatweapon

blackshard armor

flamehelm

dawnstone

OTS

225- taur’ruk

blackshard armor

greatweapon

charmed shield

crown of command

66- khan

Shrieking blade

throwing knives

light armor

shield

wolf

60- khan

spear

throwing knives

light armor

shield

wolf

60- khan

spear

throwing knives

light armor

shield

wolf

60- khan

spear

throwing knives

light armor

shield

wolf

52- khan

handweapon

throwing knives

wolf

542- 33 infernal guard

greatweapons

fcmd

swiftness banner

84- 20 hobgoblins

handweapon

throwing knives

musician

320- 6 centaurs

greatweapons

banner

musician

gleaming pennent

xx-death shrieker rocket

xx-death shrieker rocket

I went for higher defenses on the majority of the Khans because I have realized how much more important they are in this army and I cant have them getting killed to bow fire or other BS based attacks. That and against certain opponents that 4+ armor save will come in handy.

Dropped the ironcurse icon. Reasoning is that the unit has to reach under 12 models before they lose combat effectiveness, since I am counting on the castellen for stubborn. Additionally, I feel that my opponents will have more more tempting targets being the rockets, centaurs, khans, and hobgoblin block.

Additionally the bows and shields have been taken off the hobgoblins. I never remembered the parry saves first of all, and I feel that the bows are making me play them more like a shooting unit and less like a get in the opponents face unit and stall them. The extra points I am getting 2 more infernal guard, where the extra bodies will help increase the longevity of the unit.