1) Lores - I am thinking of Metal on the Level 4 & Fire on the Level 2. Up to now I’ve tried taking (both Lvl 2 & Lvl 4) Shadow & Death but found that they miss out on magic missiles & direct damage (I miss 7th ed Metal). However I am open to suggestions as this is one of the areas where I feel slightly lost
2) The Arrer boyz can be replaced with a Death Rocket for almost the same points. I intend to use them as a ‘guard’ for the war machines, whilst at the same time occasionally kill something with the arrows
3) Following the Bull Centaur post here, I’ve updated the equipment as was recommended and found him to be very resilient & can generate 4/5 combat resolution against infantry every turn
I didnt know you could bring arrer boys with CD’s?
Love seeing those centaurs in your army. very good choice.
But I dont really get the Hobgoblin hero on wolf, het cant really do anything useful fro the points he costs. You could easily field 6 CD’s with great weapons for that and thats a lot more attacks than one flimsy hero. you could give him purpose and give him the black gem of gnar and put him in the same unit as your LV 4 to give him some protection.
The same goes for the warbanner, 35 points for +1 combat, not really worth it. Take the Licebone Pennant(15 points magic res1). its cumulative with a ward save so imagine what that could do in combination with the scroll of shielding or the Talisman of Endurance.
Also, bring one of your units to 30 models (28/29 if with a character) you dont field it as a horde, but the turn before you get charged you will reform to a horde and their hitting powers increases heavily. people dont see this tactics coming and it works great at the flank of your army.
@Bolg: Arrer Boyz - To be honest I had to check about this, since I used AB for the list. There was an update to the RH list which allowed to use units from the Orc & Goblins book
Bull Centaurs - I ‘borrowed’ the idea from another post here at CDO
Hobgoblin is there for the Fanatics (a local player uses 9 of them). But you’re right. Black Gem for him
However I am open to suggestions as this is one of the areas where I feel slightly lost
Shadow ftw :) The default teleport ability keeps him alive very well, could be a life-saver for a M3 Lv4. Also means he can swap places with a powerful CD melee character and suddenly your opponent is not doing as well as he thought. Cheap Hobgob Heroes could be handy to swap places with too, and you can use Steed of Shadows to fling them into war machines. The Lore itself is very versatile, Okkam's Mindrazor on the BCs would be pretty nifty, and using the Mystifying Miasma to reduce enemy Initiative would at least guarantee they get to swing first; and using it to reduce enemy movement before they get Earthshakered is just cruel :)
I would certainly not take Metal on the Lv4, as it can be useless against some opponents and the default spell is the one you want most anyway. Better for the Lv2 imo.
I would take the Flaming Attacks banner instead of Swiftness; Not worth paying points just to get average Movement imo, and you'll want to negate regen if a Hydra or Hell Pit shows up. Also means the unit re-rolls to wound when assaulting buildings and causes fear in cavalry.
I really like 6 wide Warriors with great weapons, 30 if possible. That way they can reform into horde if it looks like a good idea, as already stated. I don't usually bother with shields either.
Not sold on the 40 Orc Boyz, are they really worth it? No Sneaky Gits or Blorcs instead?
Where will the BC characters go? The lack of a 'Look out, Sir!' is worrying vs cannons. Perhaps the BSB at least should be a CD Hero?
And no giant units of 2pt Hobgoblins? :) With Ld10 and a BSB, they are a real pain. Or is it just a lack of models? For the same cost as the Arrer Boyz, you could get a lot of Hobgobs to stand in front of the Earthshakers (and indirect fire). Or even Hobgob archers (are they cheaper? I can't actually remember).
Talisman of preservation for your level 4 to me. Not a good idea to make him your general with only a 5+ ward save. Prefer a simply CD hero, which will not miscast…
BC lord : haven’t tried it
BC BSB : I always used it in V7, but in V8, better use of the CD BSB. Easier to protect him with the look out sir rule.
Have tried the hobgob hero on wolf : very good choice! Many people forget that you must destroy units, and therefore, you must have movement (but you still have BC units). I don’t put too much points on him, so I play it with only the enchanted shield.
CD units : I prefer the flamming attack banner as baggranor said. And the LD reroll one use only at 5 pts. Warbanner is pricy now, but why not. But flamme VS swiftness
BC and earthshakers : ok
Orcs boys : play them by 30. Not convinced. Need the general LD to secure the steadfast rule…
Arrers boys : play them by 15. The good number I find. Good unit for their points. Better than hobgobs arrers! To protect flank, and have a “pose” (don’t know the right term) during the deployement…
The only drawback : only 3 standards, for the scenario blood and glory…
Naked Hobgobs by 40+ are able with the general LD.
Should try death rockets. Not convinced at the beginning, but they are needed to deal with chariots or monsters when earthshakers must sometimes fire to other targets…
For the Lore : level 2 : metal or death to me.
For the Level 4 : have tried Death : good for snipping characters.
Must try the Shadow lore.
So, like Baggranor, shadow or death for the lord, and metal for the level 2. Don’t think that direct damage are needed in V8.
Level 4 (Shadow) - like the idea of teleporting characters in out of combat. I’m not so sure about the 4+ Ward Save since the BC Lord will be needing more (in theory). Level 2 (Metal) BSB changed to CD Hero for ‘Look Out Sir!’ (totally forgot about that - had gone for BC Hero for T5) Hobgoblin Hero - added Black Gem
CD Warriors increased to 30. Dropped War Banner & replaced with Liche Standard (with Scroll Of Shielding I get 3+ Ward Save against a nasty spells that allows Ward Saves) Swapped Banner Of Swiftness with Flaming Banner
Upped Arrer Boyz to 15. Swapped Orc Boys with 41 naked Hobgoblins. Should I bother with a Mus (for Swift Reform ??)?
Lords Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer Lord; General; Magic Level 4; Lore of Shadow; Talisman of Endurance; Dispel Scroll; Ruby Ring of Ruin Bull Centaur Lord; Heavy Armour; Shield; Sword of Swift Slaying; Dragonhelm; Talisman of Preservation; Gauntlets of Bazhrakk the Cruel
Heroes Chaos Dwarf Hero; Battle Standard; Armour of Gazrakh; Opal Amulet; Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer; Magic Level 2; Lore of Metal; Scroll of Shielding Hobgoblin Hero on Wolf; Heavy Armour; Enchanted Shield; Black Gem of Gnar
Core 30 Chaos Dwarf Warriors; Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician; Champion; Lichebone Standard 30 Chaos Dwarf Warriors; Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician; Champion; Banner of the Eternal Flame 41 Hobgoblins
Special Death Rocket 15 Orc Arrer Boyz; Choppa; Normal Bow Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower
Rare 6 Bull Centaurs; 2nd Hand Weapon; Heavy Armour; Shield 6 Bull Centaurs; 2nd Hand Weapon; Heavy Armour; Shield Earthshaker Earthshaker
If you want to optimize a little more, you can drop the ruby ring : with the points, get a musician in the arrers boys, and 10 hobgobs.
You should note after battles that you lack some dispensable units, not as more as in V7. But one or 2 units of 10 hobgobs, to protect CD against shots or to sacrify and gain one turn.
Don’t find the ruby ring is very usefull…
Finally, I would switch the opal amulet with luck stone and 6+ ward save against war machines. Opal amulet is a very good item, but it’s a 4+. Luck stone give you very often the same save. And you already have Magic Resistance for ward save against magic. Leave you 5 pts.
your list it’s pretty much similar to mine… there are only few differences.
first of all - magic characters.
I use 4 level sorcerer of death with sword of gold seal (I10: xereus sun is scary) 4+ save and stability rod.
1 level sorcerer of fire with signature spell and dispel
1 level sorcerer of metal with signature spell power scroll
I prefear death because the signature spell it’s a wizard killer: we have Ld 10 and we start with a +2/+4 on the dice roll to inflicte wounds vs almost every wizard
instead than ring of ruby I prefear a 1st level sorcerer with fire ball because, if I need it, he can power up the spell (2d6/3d6 hits)
1st level sorcerer of metal it’s good to kill heavy cavalry and i don’t care if he dies after the cast of the spell…
instead than BC lord I use chaos dwarf like general.
instead than orcs I used hobbos: they are cheaper (I play a 2300 pts list - so my unit of CD infantry are 25 models and I have BT #4 instead then death rocket)
good to see the banner of eternal flame… but the other infantry standard for me it’s always warbanner
I use 4 level sorcerer of death with sword of gold seal (I10: xereus sun is scary)
The last faq states that stat bonuses from magic weapons only apply when the wielder is making attacks, so the Sorcerer Lord is still Initiative 1 in the Magic Phase :( Sucks.
I prefear death because the signature spell it's a wizard killer
Yep, its very nice but Purple Sun misfire is, as you say, terrifying :) Its still good for a Lv1 or 2 though, as he is still Ld9.
The last faq states that stat bonuses from magic weapons only apply when the wielder is making attacks
really? this really suck!!!!!!
well... this means that we will always swap xereus sun with signature spell!!!!!!;)
so sorcerer lord could be death OR shadow...
I prefear death becuase of signature spell is very good (i'm sure to have it) and it could increase our dice pool if it works... but shadow has random spells really better...
shadow spells are higher in cost but you can avoid this problem wth the item that give you +d6 to cast (and so you can play more spells) and only #4 is not good.
death is good to chaos dwarfs because our caster has Ld10 and he’s gonna have for sure signature spell: enemy wizards and BSBs are doomed (yesterday I killed plague priest, engenier sorcerer and BSB of skaven army with it).
other spelll are not so reliable:
fear spell and -3 Ld spell are good only casted togheter but -1S -1R can do the same job with only one cast.
caress of lanip is pretty useless mainly beacuse signature spell and bjuna work better
the sun rocks but it’s to risky for our I1 lord (you’ve right about I10 sword… I just read faq…:()
This looks like a fun list. I think you should stick to shadow with your lvl 4. Mind razor and miasma win games. This is especially true with those big blocks of yours. Also, I think a level 4 with death is a waste if he isn’t flying.
I have never run centaur, but they seem more survivable at 10 or 12.
typically I debuff with shadow magic and then use the death wizard nearby to snipe characters or purple sun. the lammasu has saved me a few times where arabyan carpet wouldn’t have: immunity to stomp, points denial, nice supporting charge with S5 thunder stomp.
Well, if your death mage can fly, you are not restictrd by the short range of spells and you can snipe characterss and war,achines with ease. My favorite part is casting the -1 str & toughness to everything im 24 inches. You can fly just behind his line and get nerf his whole army. This will give a nasty shooting phase and allow you to dominate combat. You can line yourself up to purple sun horizontaly. lastly, the indy gt list gives you a lamassu that ignores the micast from your first irrestible force. Take the power scroll if you want people to hate you.
More points in characters than I would take, but thats personal taste.