now that hobgoblin wolf riders got a boost from the vanguard rule and getting ranks but took a blow from, any character joining them prevents them from counting as fast cav, and cav getting nerfed in general. what kind of new strategies can we use with them now?
I heard that the main rulebook has an errata that makes mounted characters on small mounts into fast cavalry automatically. Not checked it out myself yet though.
Only if the mount itself has the fast cavalry rule.
For what i’ve read putting them in units of 12 you get half a chance to negate ranks for one or two rounds…
I was wondering if anyone has tried to run units of 15. its expensive but it has room to take casualties.
Don’t know if this helps, but in the Chaos Dwarf RH (2 page army book) it specifically says that hobgoblins on wolf are fast cavalry.
Doesn’t this mean that a hobgoblin hero counts as fast cav when mounted on a wolf?
Alas, it means he doesn’t. There is nothing specifying that a Hobgoblin hero on wolf counts as fast cavalry, which is annoying.
It’s the same with Goblins and everyone else though. As far as I’m aware, the only actual mount in the game that is specified as Fast Cavalry is the Steed of Slaanesh.
I had a minor question, it seemed to fit here, so I didn’t want to start a new thread.
What are peoples preferences on Hobgoblin wolfriders, close combat or bows? How effective are they as mobile shooters?
Very. I have no idea why anyone in their right mind would give fast cavalry anything but missile weapons. They’re completely wasted in combat.
But, in my opinion, you should give Hobgoblin Wolf Riders every upgrade they can get. With shields and light armour they have a 4+ armour save, making them the toughest fast cavalry unit in the game (everything else loses fast cav. once they get better than 5+) and they have bows too (Goblins only get short bows) giving them an effective killing range of 36". Pretty much if it’s on the table, they can fill it full of arrows within a turn.
Point for point, they are literally the best unit in the entire game. They just can’t include a Hero and still be fast cav. any more, sadly.
Yeah… I wasn’t entirely sure which way to go. I bought the bits to do them up both ways and delayed that decision, but my gut told me that was the better idea.
I tried every upgrade but they are very difficult to play : animosity is a major problem (a “one” and they can be caught by the flank or rear…) and they suffer from a poor leadership…
With bows, they are more versatile and don’t have to be exposed. They can hunt war machine easier than before (thanks to the 6 to wound). Better than the 4+ armour save and the V8 (many attacks back which nerfs close fast cav).
Or full equiped.
But bow for me.
But in V8, I prefer a hobgob boss on wolf. It doesn’t have the vanguard rule but It can easily have a nice 2+ armour save (enchanted shiel, dragon helm), and hunt warmachines, many skirmishers and flyers, and wizard hidden in a unit (to sacrify if the champion is wrong placed). No unit to hide in from cannon or template, but 60-70 pts for WS5 S4 A3, it’s pretty cheap!
No, they’re incredibly easy to play. They’re fast cav: you just put them wherever you want. Sure, you’ve got the 1 in 6 chance of them not being able to do anything and the low Ld, but you can overcome the latter with a General and/or BSB. Also, with their wolves, they can actually hold their own in combat against small units. Sure, they’re going to melt away at the first sign of a block of half-decent combat troops, but if you’re letting them get caught (remember, they have a 24" range, and can march and shoot…) then you’re not using them right. Plus, you know, Feigned Flight. No need for them to ever get near something that can kill them.
My analyse to detail what I said before :
Wolfriders : very often, it’s not a good idea to be in close combat with these guys, so bows : great range, they can now wound warmachine. But the V8 makes marksmen worse than before : increase of malus.
So, naked at 14 pts, or full armoured 16 pts. As full armoured hobgob wolfriders have no downside for many advantages, playing them with bows and full armour is the right use I think.
In V8, they gain many advantages and very few downsides : vanguard rules, fire and strike in two ranks, by 10 to break ranks. Unit size is no more a matter.
If you like them in V6-V7, play them in V8 as they are better than before.
But why I find them tricky to play : poor leadership. Yes they can (and must) get the general LD, but many greenskins must have him too… Also a pretty expensive unit. Plus Animosity.
In comparison with others fast cav : a mix between goblins wolfriders and dark elves riders. And therefore, tricky because they perform not as well as these units and can’t do all of their tasks.
But it’s my opinion:) And conclusion after many games and having taken my chaos dwarf army to friends:|
To reply to the initial question : the same strategies as before. Plus they can now kill warmachine easier by firing on. Vanguard is a nice rule but they should stay in range of the general, and random charges are longer… Charging in the flank if possible (even if there is no more unit strengh, and they used to have a good unit strengh…)
Can match well with an independant hobgob hero on wolf which can suicide on a wizard (or sometimes BSB with magic banner and few protections to win a scenario), deal with skirmishers, flyers and fast cav.
The problem that you have to take 10 still remains. 10 is now a bit better cos both ranks can shoot and fight, but forget about breaking ranks. ranks are counted at the end of combat and if you lose just one you dont break ranks anymore. so what then? bring more… how many? 12? 15? its getting quite expensive for a unit that is quite capable of running of the table in no time.
(And well you know were I stand a unit of 6 centaurs is cheaper, has a better save stays in the game longer and can operate on its own… ok, they dont have bows but I really dont care about those that mugh)
If you don’t run your fast cav. with bows, there’s no point even having fast cav. So yeah, stick with Bull Centaurs.
I have no idea why anyone in their right mind would give fast cavalry anything but missile weapons.
I built these guys by taking the BFSP Spider Riders, giving them larger shields from some special Lizardmen shields that Kera Foehunter gave me a long time ago and changing their spears into axes. I then mounted them on Chaos Warhounds. When I play them, I just give them the +1 for their shields, bumping the points cost to 12 per model. Throw in the "Command Group" and the unit's total cost is 150 Points.
There are advantages to playing them like this :
1.) Tie up enemy infantry units before they get within charging range of your main (more important) units. (Like your Sorcerer)
2.) Use the mount's extra attack and fight in two ranks, thus giving 10 attacks for the Hobgoblins (5 in front and 5 in back support), 1 extra attack for the champion, and 5 attacks for the wolves, thus resulting in 16 attacks. (P.82 of 8th rule book)
3.) Take out war machines in Close Combat, giving you 3 attacker choices (Which count as 7 attacks if using a Champion in the attacking party. (P. 110)
4.)The command unit gives them the +1 attack, Look Out Sir, and Challenges for the Champion, Rallying bonus to Leadership and the Swift Reform Manouver for the musician and bonus for the combat resolution for the Standard Bearer. (P.93-95)
They may not be as effective as a simular unit with Bows (I still have yet to finish building), but they do have their purpose in the battlefield. Also keep in mind that their Movement of 9" grants them being one of the most mobile units of the game. A "March" of 18" could mean that they could march almost 1/2 way across any playing surface in the course of the battle. Turn 1- March 18" - Turn 2 Charge!
A "March" of 18" could mean that they could march almost 1/2 way across any playing surface in the course of the battle.
And with bows, they could also shoot an additional 24" - that's 10 shots at the same Strength as they hit in close combat, so you're not losing out that much. Also, with their low Initiative, you'll be very lucky to get as many Attacks as you've listed in combat. I put my trust in missile weapons, personally.
I am going to have to model some bows onto Geckillian’s Wolfrider models.
Does anyone field two units of Wolfriders ever? Or are they not really necessary?