[Archive] Another classic GW move

Xander:

Man, this is so idiotic. :frowning:

This is something every gamer already does: buy the boxed game, and trade away one army or sell bits from it.

I just bought Dark Vengeance Chaos Cultists from someone at my LGS.

So sad.

JMR:

GW keeps doing its best to keep me from enjoying their products. They really don’t want me as a customer, do they?

NoisyAssassin:

GW keeps doing its best to keep me from enjoying their products. They really don't want me as a customer, do they?

JMR
My thoughts exactly. If they actually do manage to shut down all the bits sellers that'll be a guarantee that I don't ever start any of the multiple armies that I have planned, because buying individual bits is so integral to how I build models.

Willmark:

GW keeps doing its best to keep me from enjoying their products. They really don't want me as a customer, do they?

JMR
Basically is where I have been for years. Anyone notice I don't pour my spare time into WoH anymore? It's one of the reasons: asshat moves like this.

snowblizz:

They really don't want me as a customer, do they?

JMR
Only if you cater to their view of you as a customer. Buy on release day, in their stores, everything they sell to you with no regards for other possibilities. Space Marines are painted Ultramarine blue with their paint line with only the parts provided in one box.

GW seems to think the customers are there to support the company, not the other way around. Probably comes from leaning too much on "OMG Spah Muhrines roxxors!111!" sales.

Gav used to have The Ivory Tower as a location online, I always considered it slightly ironic. Unfortunately it seems true.

Tarrakk Blackhand:

Well, as a retainer of GW, I hate to have to agree to their reasoning on this, but here goes…try not to hate me too much guys!

The whole reason behind this new policy is that GW is protecting it’s own stores, it’s own sales, as well as the sales of the small independant retailers that have legitimatly signed up an account with them to retail their items.

What is an Independant Retailer anyway? Well, according to the contract of the policy I signed, I must provide a Brick and Mortar store location (I need to pay rent and have a presence in the local community), a gaming area devoted to playing the game and promoting the hobby, floor space to display the product and accessibility to the product line in the form of special orders and so fourth. Therefore, I am contributing to the hobby and encouraging it by introducing people to war gaming and so on.

In addition to this, I must buy the product at a certain price and then resell it at the MSRP price that Games Workshop sets out on their web site. Now, that seems simple enough to do, and you would think that nothing could ever go wrong with that.

However, and this is really what GW is trying to protect with this policy, there are people out there that don’t have a Brick and Mortar store, don’t have a gaming area, are not promoting the community, and are basically not doing anything except undercutting the people who ARE trying to legitimatly sell the GW items. They don’t care either. Therefore, Joe Blow in his Mom’s basement, sitting around in his underware and typing into the computer, is getting the sale whereas the people who have put in the time and money and effort are struggling to make ends meet. So by GW implicating this new policy, they are trying to stamp out Joe Blow and get their own guys the sales that they deserve for following the rules. (The independant retailers and themselves - afterall, it’s THEIR product, and they should, by all rights, have #1 sales.)

I know you guys are hurt by not being able to get the bits/bitz, and it also hurts me not to be able to sell them either (and yes, I too have a small crate of stuff people gave me in the past that I am now stuck with until the end of time), but there are good reasons behind this too. And yes, they ARE legal, and, after considering it, I agree with them.

#1. - Customer Safety. GW is responsible for all it’s items released to the general public. If one of their items injurs a customer, I.E. someone steps on a Goblin Spear and it goes through their foot, then GW is responsible. Therefore, to legally cover them, their items must have warning labels on them. That might be a policy that they can’t get around, and if you all notice, it’s on EVERY manufacturer these days. That’s why they’re saying “If you’re going to resell it, repackage it.”

#2. - If Joe Blow sells an unpackaged GW item and someone gets injured by it, then that person could sue GW and say “I bought this stuff and there were no warning lables.” Then GW is sued, will have problems contesting it, and we loose the game that way.

#3. - Joe Blow buys a box of Dwarf Warriors, rips open the box and then sells all the parts wholesale and for cheaper than the legitimate Brick and Mortar stores, then your local hobby/gaming shop has to close it’s doors. Yeah, you saved a few bucks from Joe, but then you can’t go and play at your LGS.

#4. - GW sells a box of Space Wolves for $44.75 (CDN). Joe Blow sells a box of Space Marines for $10.00 and the Space Wolf bits for $1.45, plus shipping. So you buy from Joe and again, the LGS has their Space Wolfs on the shelf for 3 years and they don’t ever make the sale. In the meantime, their customers come in with a full Space Wolf army and boast about how they got the models from Joe on a discount sale. So again, the LGS shuts down because he can’t compete with Joe.

#5. - Another area is intercontinetial online sales. Hobby store “A” in Canada sells a box of Space Marines for $25.00. Hobby store “B” in U.S.A. sells the same box for $22.00 and Hobby store “C” in Australia sells the same box for $18.00. So then everyone goes to store “C” and again, the local guy is shut out. Therefore, GW wants to eliminate those web sales and confine any shipping to local areas, or better yet, to walk in customers.

#6. - Even if GW is the only one left online who is able to sell, their online prices are equil to the Brick and Mortar prices in your local Independant Retailer store. This way, GW can still sell products to those people who might be 400 miles away from a LGS, but who still want to play the game. Places where there is no physical GW store (Or IDR) location.

Remeber guys…it may sound like it really sucks, but there are good reasons behind their decisions on this one.

Now, I don’t think they can shut down everyone on EBay…but they may be able to shut down those people that set up legitimate online EBay exclusive stores that sell the GW items over a period of months or years. Time will tell.

However, as a world-wide manufacturer/retailer, GW is only trying to protect their interests and those of the people they support. This starts with their base customers, their IDR’s and lastly, themselves. at times, they need to be harsh in these policies, but if it does protect us and the game, can we not get over the initial “Sting” of it all?

They call me “The Hated One” for a reason!

Kera foehunter:

No one cares!! Like most of us we already have way to much of there crap.

if gw have the copy right and all right of gw figures… Then buy back my shit that i no longer want…

its only fair

Gunnerson:

Its for sure the real deal. The WarStore is closing down and has made a youtube video about it. This is old hat in the US GW has had this policy in the US sence 2003. My LGS for years has bought back used armies in exchange for store credit sence 95ish. After 2003 they had to stop. They worked arround this technicality by having helpers like myself list the items on ebay. Now the seller gets a % back based on the sale of the items on Ebay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?hl=en&gl=US&client=mv-google&v=EnPpfs120DA&nomobile=1

Gunnerson:

#5. - Another area is intercontinetial online sales. Hobby store "A" in Canada sells a box of Space Marines for $25.00. Hobby store "B" in U.S.A. sells the same box for $22.00 and Hobby store "C" in Australia sells the same box for $18.00. So then everyone goes to store "C" and again, the local guy is shut out. Therefore, GW wants to eliminate those web sales  and confine any shipping to local areas, or better yet, to walk in customers.

Now, I don't think they can shut down everyone on EBay...but they may be able to shut down those people that set up legitimate online EBay exclusive stores that sell the GW items over a period of months or years. Time will tell.

Tarrakk Blackhand
To address this. Other points I will buy, but point number 5 just does not work. Specificly this description at any rate. No one in their right mind would buy a GW mini in Australia if there is any option. The Aussie prices are almost double those of any place else in the world. My other issue with this is that after exchange rates and postage its not worth the purchase of the items first hand from a retailer in a different country. As per bits sales on the other hand GW is absurd. I will scratch build, convert, or pirate a 25 cent lasgun before I ever considered purchaseing a $50 kit for 2 or 6 or what ever of them. Simply I have not purchased anything directly from GW in almost a decade and don't intend to in the future.

Your second point there is correct. GW can not ban the resale of their products on EBAY. All GW has done is offically said that all GW "partners" are prohibited from selling to and from certin persons and venues. My LGS could not place an order for my personal Empire army because it would cost in excess of $800. My LGS could allow me to purcase $500 this month and an additional $500 next month and so on. This hurts GW because as a result I will not be purchasing these models new. I will buy what I want when I want and where I want. Anyone can sell any "used" GW product anywhere they want including eBay as long as they are not a GW "partner".

Ugly Green Trog:

Games workshop want to kill the hobby. They discourage originality at every turn, WD and GW no longer showcase any cool scratch built terrain. I too find bits sites integral to my modelling process and I’m hardly gonna go in and buy a £30 box just to get a few bits am I? In all likelihood I’ll trade with friends or get 2nd hand off ebay which will mean GW will get less profit as at least companies like bitzbox buy from them wholesale.

Grimbold Blackhammer:

If I understood the Mini Wargaming video correctly, my LGS can now only purchase $500 of product per month. If I have not misunderstood that point, my concern is that may be the final nail in the GW coffin. I hope it isn’t because I really like Warhammer! But I expect many local game stores will not be able to survive with that little stock. So in the immediate people will flock to the GW website to buy their stuff. But LGS are a big (dare I say the biggest?) component in promoting the wargaming hobby and as they fall or just stop promoting the GW product because it isn’t worth their effort to promote anymore, so will overall GW sales as well. I hope it isn’t true but my gut tells me this will cure the disease by killing the patient.

Gunnerson:

If I understood the Mini Wargaming video correctly, my LGS can now only purchase $500 of product per month.  If I have not misunderstood that point, my concern is that may be the final nail in the GW coffin.  I hope it isn't because I really like Warhammer!  But I expect many local game stores will not be able to survive with that little stock.  So in the immediate people will flock to the GW website to buy their stuff.  But LGS are a big (dare I say the biggest?) component in promoting the wargaming hobby and as they fall or just stop promoting the GW product because it isn't worth their effort to promote anymore, so will overall GW sales as well.  I hope it isn't true but my gut tells me this will cure the disease by killing the patient.

Grimbold Blackhammer
You are close but not quite right. What they are saying is that YOU the customer can not go to your LGS and purchase GW products exceeding a local cash value of $500.00 in the course of 1 month. This is GW working on the premise that if you are spending $9xx on their products you are either reselling them as bits, at a markup ect. or recasting their sculpts to sell counterfits at a deep discount. They can't imagine that the average North American wargamer has more than $500 per month of disposable income for use on their products.

gIL^:

I didn’t think GW could get any worse. Im happy the majority of my hobbying comes from ebay, Except the direct online lammasu :smiley:

Marduk:

@Tarrack Blackhand:

All of the points mentioned make sense but they could come up with a better marketing strategy. Instead of reinventing their business model, they are alienating their customers and indirect channels.

Hopefully they’ll pay attention to the feedback and will find a better solution soon.

Grimbold Blackhammer:

While their technical writers, if they even employ any, leave much to be desired, there are some smart money-people at GW. In two to three years when they see a sudden sales drop off (I figure that’s now long it will take for the lack of LGS promoting their product to take effect), they’ll change some of their policies.

Hashut’s Blessing:

Tarrak: The problem isn’t their reasons, it’s that they’re trying to lick a wound of self-infliction.

If they had their own bits service, people wouldn’t worry.

If their prices weren’t so high, less people would search for Joe Blow.

If they allowed their independent stockists to sell at a reduced price (like they used to), then people would buy the product.

If they could actually police it, it would make sense - but eBay and Gumtree and Freecycle and meeting people in Games Workshop and so on and so forth all exist and are all places they have no legal capability of stopping people from doing bit trading. They’ve tried and failed!

Again, GW’s reasons are sound “My arse is now covered and we’re stopping ourselves/minions from losing out on sales.”, but their method is ridiculous.

They either need to have their own bits service or redefine what isn’t allowed to happen - I.E. individual parts (explained in legal jargon that prevents ambiguity) can be sold, but sprues of models can’t…

EDIT: As Kera so well put it and I’m going to reiterate in my less-polite, more normal method of speech - we’re fed up of their shit. Enough was enough, but that was quite some time ago. The proverbial biscuit has been taken and the crumbs thrown in our eyes and this year, they’re just kicking us in the bollocks. Flat out bullying. One day, the teacher’s coming and they’re shut down because of their own stupid actions and decisions and they can only blame themselves for not listening to our tears.

Tarrakk Blackhand:

"My arse is now covered and we're stopping ourselves/minions from losing out on sales.",

HB
I hope you don't view me as a minion.

gIL^:

"My arse is now covered and we're stopping ourselves/minions from losing out on sales.",

HB
I hope you don't view me as a minion.


Tarrakk Blackhand
I think he meant thats what Games workshop see's their stockists.

They should reward loyalty and help FLGS but these rules are made to destroy your business and the proverbial middleman so GW gets the sales not you.

They are actually competing against you and stacking the deck.

I love FLGS and it will be sad when non of them stock GW stuff because of cannibalistic moves like this.

GW are like a big daft dog chasing it's tail.

Tarrakk Blackhand:

They should reward loyalty and help FLGS but these rules are made to destroy your business and the proverbial middleman so GW gets the sales not you.

They are actually competing against you and stacking the deck.

gil
I don't really know if that's the intention or not...it is too early and time will tell.

Secondly, I am unaware that GW ever had a "Middle Man".

I know for items like my Revell model cars, I can't buy those directly from Revell...I have to get them from my Wholesaler, a middleman, who then sells to me. GW items have always been a direct order item. - Joe Blow is not a middle man. He's really last on the list.

However, I doubt that my business will colapse souly based on GW. I still have great sales with Magic : The Gathering, plastic model kits, model trains, halloween costumes, WW2 mini's, and so on. I stock a lot of things that carry me through that GW can't regulate.

I think, although it isn't said in their policy, that GW realizes this and isn't totally reliant on me selling 100% of their product for them. I could drop them and promote Round 2 plastic model kit products and still make my sales figures! :D

cornixt:

The harder that GW make it for FLGSs to work with them, the less that those stores are going to promote GW products. There are increasingly more quality alternatives to GW. They want a bigger piece of the pie (sales of their products), but their actions are causing the pie to shrink and fewer people care.