[Archive] Another Hobgoblin Army Book

Nicodemus:

With my arcane threadomancy powers I summon thee from the forgotten cataombs!!

I realize this thread is over 2 ½-years old, but does anyone out there still have a copy of the pdf? The domain is no longer valid and I can’t seem to find any other copies of it floating around the 'Net.

I’m on a bit of a Hobgoblin kick lately and am thinking about making my own Hobgoblin army book, but I fully realize that such an undertaking is not a strong point I possess :wink:

Thanks for any help that can be lent.

~N

RTMaitreya:

If all you did was copy hobgoblin items from Tamurkhan, Tommy, and RH lists, you could field a GREAT hobgoblin list without a lot of work.  You would need the following:

CORE
Rabble from Tommy H (as is, they’re very fluffy)
Hobgoblins from Tamurkhan, but give them spears for 1/2 point as an option.
Hob wolf riders from Tamurkhan (as is)

SPECIAL
Sneaky Gitz from Tommy H (as is)
Bolt throwers from Tommy or RH
Slavers (skirmishers that scout, maybe have “killing blow” capcha stikks or the Trappers rule from Gnoblars)
Khan’s Guard (Hobbos with WS4, Ld7, Init 3, and heavy armor, give options for halberds, 2-hand weap, and riding wolves) - they also quell animosity for all hobbos within 6"

Consider an option for Madd Bommerz - psycho skirmishers that impact enemy lines and explode at init 2 if they get into close combat. Each bommer left in the unit at Init 2 causes 1d6 S6 AP hits on the enemy, and are then removed. If the enemy suffers 25% casualties, they must take a panic test. A nice counter to all the great weapons and high T/armor opponents.

RARE
Sand Wyrm (pick any monster from anywhere as basis)
Mountain Roc (use any giant flying monster from anywhere)
Ogre slave unit (use regular ogres from WoC, not the super impact ogres from OK)
Some kind of actually dangerous war machine based on rokkits or the flying launch thing from O&G

Give the entire army a special rule like “greedy slavers” so they shape up when close to the enemy and get motivated by their lust for power.  They do not suffer animosity if within 12" of any enemy.

Now you have a playable list, once you clean up hero options from O&G and Tamurkhan Khan.

Abecedar:

will have a look as I remember something about it

Abecedar:

Have got Hobgoblyn’s book saved at home, can email it to you if you’d like or is there somewhere to put it on the forum somewhere.

lostmember:

Shame the link doesn’t work. I’m working on a Slave Horde list at the moment and it would have been cool to see the ideas.

In terms of Hobgoblin magic and religion, I’ve gone a bit different. My Hobgoblin mages (Wiz Gitz) are Hobbos that the Chaos Dwarfs have spliced daemonic essences to - to use as slaves in the Daemonic forges where they need to be able to use magic: So they can use artefacts to create the effects of magic, but aren’t real wizards. My fluff has all the Hobgoblin shamans being slaughtered when the tribes were first subdued by the CDs, to prevent them becoming too powerful. Likewise I have the religion being suppressed by the CDs. So they worship the ‘Great Git’ in secret - with the Sneaky Gitz being a kind of semi-religious group (a bit like the Hashshashin), dedicated to being back-stabbing and treacherous in the name of their God.

I don’t think a Hobgoblin only army would be too interesting, but I think that their role as overseers to the other slaves gives loads of room for cool units. Boar Centaurs (created in their master’s twisted experiments), Berserkorks etc…lots you can do.

I actually think a Slave Horde list is the most fun thing to look at, because there’s so little cultural background that it’s almost entirely free to work with.

RTMaitreya:

Have got Hobgoblyn's book saved at home, can email it to you if you'd like or is there somewhere to put it on the forum somewhere.

Abecedar
Would love a copy at rtmaitreya at gmail dot com
You can also post on Google docs if you have an account, and click the "anyone can access" button and copy and paste the link and post it here.  That way it will be available forever.  Do you have the .doc or is it only the pdf?

I have plenty of experience in game design, including five different "counts as" codices and army books in the past few decades.  My Fimir list from old O&G 10 years ago is still the top one that comes up on Google searches, if you want to see my rules work.  www.freewebz.com/rgmw/fantasy/FIMIR_List.pdf  I intend to be updating this old Fimir list with a list that is a counts-as Ogre Kingdoms in the same manner, as soon as I get around to it.

I'd be happy to crank out the rules, and I can pretty much guarantee that my first pass will be better game balanced than anything out of FW or GW and whatever they do in the name of "playtesting" (i.e., drinking 'till someone passes out, then claiming victory).

I also like to maximize tournament legality, but in this case I'll have to stick to a varied unit approach in order to make it more thematic and balanced than legal.

Nicodemus:

@Abecedar PM sent!

@RTMaitreya Wow, that was a fast response and some great ideas indeed. The Mad Bomberz is a really stellar idea, and you’re right a nice counter some of the scary heavy hitters out there.

After putting some thoguht into Hobgoblin culture, etc. over the past little while, my take on Hobgoblins and any semblance of an army that they might form would look like something inbetween the organization and efficacy of an all-Orc army or an all-Goblin army.  

Being not quite as tough as Orcs I can’t imagine Hobgoblins would be routinely enslaving anything much larger than human-sized things. Given their location I would guess that Gnoblars and Goblins would comprise the majority of any slaves they’d have.  These of course would be traded to Chaos Dwarfs and Ogres in exchange for weapons, safe passage through lands, etc.  

As Hobgoblins are well-known for their subservient role to Chaos Dwarfs I’m imagining that the Hobgoblin slaves under the rule of the Chaos Dwarfs are just one facet of Hobgoblins, but that they would have many other clans through the Easter Steppes and they aren’t all controlled by Chaos Dwarfs (hence the reasoning that some of them would still trade with Chaos Dwarfs). I think given their suspicious, cowardly and backstabbing nature, however, Hobgoblins would always be wary and untrustful of anyone, especially members of their own race. For this reason there would be no guarantee that a Hobgoblin leader or boss wouldn’t sell his own men to a faction of Ogres or Chaos Dwarfs if it served his purpose, but there wouldn’t be any kind of friendly alliance between those races.  

The nature of Hobgoblins (to me anyway) seems to suggest that any Ogres they might have in their army would not be slaves, but maybe some hired muscle, and as such would be a Rare choice in such an army. They also wouldn’t be all that likely to have any beasts/monsters too much larger than their wolf mounts or maybe some dumb Trolls they’ve conned into helping them.  Hobgoblins are only a bit tougher than Goblins, after all, but their unscrupulous and of an untrustworthy nature would make it somewhat unlikely that they’d be able to organzie themselves enough have any really strong things in their army that could crush them :wink:

With regards to other things in their ‘army’ I’m thinking that their lifestyle would be somewhat more nomadic and therefore they’d be likely to have much more mobile components to their army. I was thinking of things along the lines of a caravan… kind of like the poor Hobgoblin’s version of the Chaos Dwarf land train, not nearly as tough but more mobile to fit their lifestyle.

With regards to magic, I was thinking about two types an Alchemist that doesn’t have access to any of the lores, but has potions and other concotions that produce spell-like effects. I was thinking the true ‘wizard’ of the Hobgoblins would be a Trickster, a sort of character that has some sneaky tricks up his sleeve to help his own guys, as well as mess up the enemy and and he’d maybe generate an additional dispel die during enemy magic phases to further beef-up his ‘trickery’.  The first few posts in this thread deal with magic lores… and I agree with the creator of this thread - Fire is rather over-used, metal doesn’t seem like it’s well suited to their fluff. Shadow fills the need for the trickery/illusion site of things but, like metal, doesn’t seem suited to them.  Lore of Beasts seems pretty sensible as I imagine their wizards as still being shaman-like and in tune with nature, but apart from Shadow none of the other seem like much of a fit for them.  In addition to Lore of Beasts I think maybe they need their own Lore that’s more tailored to their fluff, things like poison, swiftness, illusions, deception, as well as cheating and backstabbing :wink:

The idea of models like the Goblin Naster Skulkerz, where they can be hiding in a unit and pop out to surprise an opponent it perfect for this kind of army, but I’m not sure how to do that without just copying what was already done in the O&G book… although if it was done well the first time there’s not necessarily any point in forcing it to be different while obviously trying to do the same thing  :P

Here’s kind of an idea of what I came up with for a Hobgoblin army composition (also including the Mad Bomberz for now because they’re a great idea)

Lords

Ghazak Khan

Gorduz Backstabber

Talrik, Dark Alchemist of the Great Khan

Balstaff (Lv 4 Trickster/Wizard)

Heroes

Alchemists

Tricksters

Boss Khans

Core

Warriors

Wolfriders

Khans (basically tougher versions of the Warriors)

Slaves (Gnoblars & Goblins, don’t count toward Core)

Special

Bolt Throwers

Mad Bomberz

Sneaky Gits

Oglah Khan’s Wolfboyz

Rare

Slave Caravan

Ogres

Giant

War Trolls of the Grey Mountains

That’s pretty much as far as I’ve been able to get… not having much experience with this kind of thing :stuck_out_tongue:

~N

I think we (as in members of the CDO community) could probably put together a small version of a Hobgoblin army book, similar to Kevin Coleman’s Gnoblar army list from White Dwarf #310… that was only 7 pages but had all the makings for an army. Sure there were people who didn’t like it, but 7 pages is something that could even be squeezed into a future Word of Hashut if we ever get around to doing another Hobgoblin-themed issue :wink:

RTMaitreya:

I snipped down to the things I cared about most.

Agreed on pretty much everything.

Ensure rules fit what people will have or want to model up, and keep things generic enough so it doesn’t piss off people who already have invested heavily in models that work already for some rules set.

Keep slaves as generic rabble, since people will have a mix of humans, gnoblars, and BfSP goblins all over the place. If we just say “here’s your rules, we don’t care what they look like” then that’s a big win for everyone. Something between Rabble and Gnoblars and we’re done. Make sure they have a spears and shields option so the large number of BfSP goblins are happy.

Ogres and Trolls and Giant, perfect. Give them some options to fit people’s collections.

Nasty skulkers, trappers, etc., we can rip exactly out of existing O&G and other rules sets that people are familiar with. The fewer new rules, the better. We want this to “appear” to be a legal list that won’t twist up everyone’s underpants, and we’re primarily combining units and upgrades and rules that people already know.

We do need to have a method to keep down the brutal debilitating effects of animosity in some way that is consistent with the overpricing of basic hobbos. The reason they’re overpriced relative to normal goblins is that we can mitigate animosity in all of our lists. We have to recognize and deal with that in a rules-appropriate manner that the hobbo and opponent players can influence. I like my option pretty well because it’s very different than either O&G and Tamurkhan, but still equivalent in it’s effectiveness.

As for a caravan, let’s do slave carts as light chariots (d3 impact hits) that form units. You want to train them together in a caravan, great, we can give them a reason to do that (like increasing impact hit strength of the guys in front like Ogre Kings, or some other already known rule). Give the slave carts a moderately high cost noose&snare option that counts as spiky blades, so they do an additional impact hit. In reality, casualties from slave carts are captures, not deaths, but game terms irrelevant.

Creating a new lore is tricky, but doable. It’s easy to take an existing lore and rename it, so let’s look into that option first. Maybe we figure out Beasts, Slavery, and Shadow as three options (where Shadow is already illusions and trickery, and Slavery can be a rename for an existing lore or our own lore altogether).

You could make the alchemist purchase potions that are selected limited set of bound spells from act like lore of metal and/or some other standard list. Lore of Metal is alchemy, after all. Minimize the wonkiness if it already exists in a rules form (not necessarily the fluff text) we want. Pick the buffs plus a fireball or sommat as alchemical options, and we’re done. Alternatively, we can give him a special rule that says he can have more than one item that is a potion (which other characters cannot do), and add three more potions to the list beyond the standard ones. Very little work, and voila, we create a unique and fun character option that people will select just because it’s cool. If you try to drink two potions in the same turn, make a Ld check or suffer a miscast result, something like that.

We can do this in 7 pages, and aim for WoH, that’s a fantastic idea!

RTM

would look like something inbetween the organization and efficacy of an all-Orc army or an all-Goblin army.  

Given their location I would guess that Gnoblars and Goblins would comprise the majority of any slaves they’d have.  … the Hobgoblin slaves under the rule of the Chaos Dwarfs are just one facet of Hobgoblins,

Ogres they might have in their army would not be slaves, but maybe some hired muscle, and as such would be a Rare choice …They also wouldn’t be all that likely to have any beasts/monsters too much larger than their wolf mounts or maybe some dumb Trolls

more nomadic and therefore they’d be likely to have much more mobile components to their army. I was thinking of things along the lines of a caravan…

With regards to magic, I was thinking about two types an Alchemist that doesn’t have access to any of the lores, but has potions and other concotions that produce spell-like effects. I was thinking the true ‘wizard’ of the Hobgoblins would be a Trickster,… In addition to Lore of Beasts I think maybe they need their own Lore that’s more tailored to their fluff, things like poison, swiftness, illusions, deception, as well as cheating and backstabbing :wink:

The idea of models like the Goblin Naster Skulkerz, where they can be hiding in a unit and pop out to surprise an opponent it perfect for this kind of army, but I’m not sure how to do that without just copying what was already done in the O&G book…

but 7 pages is something that could even be squeezed into a future Word of Hashut if we ever get around to doing another Hobgoblin-themed issue :wink:

Nicodemus

Thommy H:

I’ve got some ideas for this. I might try to put something together this weekend.

Nicodemus:

@RTMaitreya I agree with everything… sounds reasonable and pretty do-able. Good points about keeping it close to existing rules to keep opponents happy with the familiarity.

I’ve got some ideas for this. I might try to put something together this weekend.

Thommy H
Great, can’t wait to see what you come up with!

JMR:

How about Hobgoblins throwing Molotov cocktails? Seems fitting if you want to explore the Alchemy route. Could be done while riding a wolf, or as a skirmishing unit.

Baggronor:

This is looking pretty cool :slight_smile:

I think Hobgoblyn had one in his original list but I really like the idea of a heavy Wolf Rider unit. Armoured wolves could look awesome. They wouldn’t hit that hard, obviously, but would be the fastest heavy cav in the game.

Or maybe even Great Wolf cavalry - monstrous cav like the Space Wolf ones?

I don’t want to step on any toes as you guys seem to have things in hand, but I’ll throw in my 2 cents and maybe there might be something worth incorporating:

Lords

Ghazak Khan

Great Khan - option for wolf or Great Wolf

Great Shaman - option for wolf or a giant vulture mount or some such

Heroes

Gorduz Backstabber

Khan - option for wolf or Great Wolf

Shaman - option for wolf

Alchemist - option for wolf or a Slave Wagon, his mobile laboratory full of potions and junk

Disciple of the Great Git - Sneaky Git Hero, can scout or remain hidden in units. I thought this guy could even have an effect on animosity due to being so backstabby - nearby units could be more likely to roll ‘Bloody Murderers’.

Core

1+ Wolf Riders

Rabble - only because the army wouldn’t fit on a table if it was really all cav, and because people have infantry models

Special

Heavy cav Wolf Riders

Sneaky Gits - skirmished scouts with 2 hand weapons and throwing knives, poisoned

Slave Wagons - personally I’d do them as heavy chariots. When they are destroyed, the slaves inside could escape and inflict hits on nearby units like with Skavenslaves :slight_smile:

Rare

Monstrous cav Wolf Riders

Mobile Stone Thrower - option to fire clay shells full of burning oil instead of regular rocks. Fits in well with the Alchemists too. A bit like the Scrap Launcher.

Steppes Trolls - some kind of windswept variant of Troll… leathery skin or something… I dunno…

Army-wide rule: To represent their nomadic lifestyle and general opinion that the best way to win is to shoot someone from a distance and then run away fast if it doesn’t work, Hobgoblins would ignore the penalty to hit for moving and shooting if mounted, and all characters would benefit from the fast cav rules when mounted on wolves.

Thommy H:

I have a way better idea for Monstrous Cavalry than that…

Baggronor:

Tell! :slight_smile:

This message was automatically appended because it was too short.

Thommy H:

I’ll show you when I’ve written it.

zobo1942:

I think you should include some kind of ‘Mongolian Death Worm’ - either as a randomly manifesting terrain-like feature, or as some kind of summoned creature that shows up and attacks whatever is around it - hobgoblin or not. Kind of like a ‘Comet of Cassandra’… only acid-spewing and slippery.

"The Mongolians say that the olgoi-khorkhoi can kill at a distance, either by spraying an acid-like substance or by using an electrical discharge.[1][1]

The Mongolians also believe that touching any part of the worm will cause instant death. Its venom supposedly corrodes metal and local folklore tells of a predilection for the color yellow. The worm is also said to have a preference for local parasitic plants such as the goyo.

Thommy H:

Heh. You’re going to like what I’m writing, Zobo…

Thommy H:

Okay, here we go. This is a White Dwarf style list, like the Blood Angels had a few years ago and the Sisters got last month. Like them, it comes in two parts, so here’s number one: the Bestiary.

Because it’s not a “full” Armies book, it doesn’t have too many units - just three Core, three Special and a couple of Rares. Enough to make a legal army from in other words, but not enough to provide masses of variety. I think it has some fun ideas though.

Nicodemus:

Nice first attempt. I’m not convinced about the big worms though… but others seem to be suggesting similar ideas. Is there a reason for this in the Hobgoblin fluff some place?

Thommy H:

It’s mostly the Mongolian Deathworm thing, with a dash of Dune thrown in.