Spartacus:
Sad day, Chaos Dwarfs are no longer a legal army to take in the 2011 'Ard Boyz tournament.
Tarrakk Blackhand:
Do you think if we made a world-wide stink about it, they’d reconsider?
Thommy H:
No. Chaos Dwarfs don’t have legally available rules any more. Why would they be supported in tournaments?
And, more to the point, why does it matter? Tournaments don’t mean anything.
Spartacus:
I played Chaos Dwarfs last year, and that was with 8th edition rules. Chaos Dwarfs rocked the cheesy list tournament. Imagine 4 Earthshakers and 12 Hobgoblin Bolt Throwers! They also have some good prizes, and a possible golden ticket to the Throne of Skulls tournament, not to mention Chaos Dwarf pride. So I wouldn’t exactly say it doesn’t matter.
Tarrakk Blackhand:
Speaking of 'ard Boys…
Here’s a video I just made for You-Tube to advertise my 'ard Boys tournament :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biWaAiSD7uU
Enjoy!
Thommy H:
Chaos Dwarf prideAnyone who feels any sense of "pride" that an army of toy soldiers they collect is used by someone else to win a completely arbitrary tournament needs to seriously examine their priorities in life.
Da Crusha:
i have CHAOS DWARF PRIDE!!!
and Im not afraid to say it
Thommy H:
Then I refer you to my above comment.
Da Crusha:
CHAOS DWARF PRIDE! CHAOS DWARF PRIDE! CHAOS DWARF PRIDE!
come on everybody, show that you have pride in chaos dwarfs!
furrie:
CHAOS DWARF PRIDE!!!
Thommy H:
How can you be proud of something that isn’t your own achievement?
However, semantics aside, my original point was that, unless you’re someone who’s actually taking part in this tournament, this doesn’t mean anything. Chaos Dwarfs aren’t legal - of course they aren’t, because they’re no longer officially supported. The Ravening Hordes list isn’t hosted on the GW website and they don’t sell any models for them. So why would a tournament allow them to be used? It defies sense.
Da Crusha:
but no one has mentioned anything about “using someone else models to win” except for you
Anyone who feels any sense of “pride” that an army of toy soldiers they collect is used by someone else to win a completely arbitrary tournament needs to seriously examine their priorities in life.
Thommy H
How can you be proud of something that isn’t your own achievement?
Thommy H
Thommy H:
I think you’re misunderstanding: I mean “army” in the wider sense of “that kind of army”. Like Orcs and Goblins or Tomb Kings. So if you’re an O&G player, and another O&G player wins a tournament, the suggestion from Spartacus was that that should somehow make you proud of your army. I’m saying that’s absurd.
nitroglysarine:
I disagree, to a degree. If you’ve loved modelling say Space marines for decades, and you took part in a tournament, but another player of Space Marines won it.
You can still feel a sense of pride for the guy who won because still Marines won it, and you like marines!
For example,
It makes you proud to be English as they won the Six Nations.
It makes you proud to be a Space Marine player is Space Marines won the tournament.
(Yes those two aren’t quite in the same range really, but I can see what he’s getting at)
Thommy H:
It makes you proud to be English as they won the Six Nations.No it doesn't: I didn't chose to be English, I was born here by random chance. Pride is an emotion you get when you achieve something, when you've done something worthwhile. You can like something that someone else did, or respect it, or even be filled with a sense of awe at the difficulty of the task or the selflessness of the deed, but that's not the same as pride.
nitroglysarine:
So I can’t feel pride for my son’s achievements? (as an example)
Grabbing a dictionary definition for pride gives:-
Pride:- a feeling of self-respect and personal worth or a satisfaction with your (or another’s) achievements; “he takes pride in his son’s success”Pride is something that makes you feel self worth, so ‘I spent 300 hours converting an army’ and someone else won with the same type of army is vaid IF it gives you pride.
Thommy H:
You can be proud of your son’s achievements, but you’re not proud because he lives in your house or because he’s the same nationality as you, are you? You’re proud because he’s someone you love, because you nurtured and educated him, because, as his father, you have a hand in all that he achieves.
But I don’t know the England Rugby team, and had nothing to do with their success. I didn’t help at any stage. I didn’t even watch them play. My only connection to them is that they come from the same arbitrary geographic area as me. Why should the success of a small number of individuals with whom I share a single trait make me feel better about myself or the things I do? Don’t get me wrong: I wish them well, and if you’re a rugby fan who’s English then I’m sure it’s fantastic, but it means nothing to me, and has no affect on my feelings about my nation or nationality.
So, if someone else who has a Chaos Dwarf army wins a tournament (which, by the by, isn’t an achievement I put any stock in anyway) it doesn’t make any difference to my feelings about my Chaos Dwarf army - why would it? My army is mine, and I did the work, and their army is theirs, and they did the work. Now, if it was someone who posted here, who’d been influenced by me in some way, I might be justifed in feeling pride. If they won with an army chosen using my book, or were influenced by my painting or background, I’d be proud. As it is, these hypothetical tournament winners might as well just have the same name as me, or the same colour hair, or be English.
nitroglysarine:
I guess it comes down to the fact its an emotion.
Pride is an emotion, emotions aren’t always logical.
So if you don’t feel it, you don’t feel it, if you do, you do.
People anthropomorphise their armies, it happens, so if someone succeeds with a similar type of army, it could happen that they feel proud. Like you said it would be more logical if someone was inspired to come with an awesome army using inspiration from some thing you’d posted on the forums and gone on to win something.
Thommy H:
Yeah, so we can at least agree that “Chaos Dwarf pride” - at least as regards tournament results - is pretty illogical. That’s all I was saying. This ruling shouldn’t affect anyone who isn’t planning to actually be in the tournaments because:
a) it has no bearing on the “legality” of Chaos Dwarfs anyway.
b) tournaments are meaningless
c) tournaments you aren’t in are even more meaningless
nitroglysarine:
Well indeed on a), disagree for some on b) and agree on c).
But you concede that someone can feel pride in any situation, it isn’t wrong, its just their emotional basis.